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The Villain of CRISPR

michaeleisen.org

71–80 of 106 posts

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#71
post #20

I hate the fact that breakthroughs like this are patentable. People need to follow Alexander Flemings lead: The pharmacist Sir Alexander Fleming is revered not just because of his discovery of penicillin – the antibiotic that has saved millions of lives – but also due to his efforts to ensure that it was freely available to as much of the world’s population as possible. Fleming could have become a hugely wealthy man…

I think that means you hate breakthroughs.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#72
post #20

I hate the fact that breakthroughs like this are patentable. People need to follow Alexander Flemings lead: The pharmacist Sir Alexander Fleming is revered not just because of his discovery of penicillin – the antibiotic that has saved millions of lives – but also due to his efforts to ensure that it was freely available to as much of the world’s population as possible. Fleming could have become a hugely wealthy man…

There's a big difference between exclusive licensing and non-exclusive licensing. New drugs (like penicillin) tend to be exclusively licensed because of the costs involved in regulatory approval, and that can slow down technology diffusion - the wrong licensee can sink the technology. But enabling technologies (like CRSPR) get licensed non-exclusively, particularly when the patent holder is an academic institution. I…

There is a big difference between PCR and CRISPR though. Whilst PCR is effectively a reading technology, CRISPR is a writing technology. For many medical technologies then PCR is a standalone diagnostic tool (it is HUGE in mol. biol., pathology, biotech). However you can quite easily see CRISPR being a core tech within revolutionary deliverable medical treatments.

As Eisen points out its kind of odd that the group who rush to do the obvious human implementation should then get a share of all this potential... Not really a novel invention by that point in my opinion.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#73
post #15

I have never seen a paper on CRISPR that can distinguish between selecting pre-existing mutants and actually modifying genes. I have read probably a dozen or so at this point, and it is amazing that they always fail to address this either in citations or actual data. At first I thought it was an honest mistake, but now it would not surprise me if some of the main players know that their experiments with CRISPR have b…

This is a baseless critique. No one has to address alternative hypotheses that don't make any sense. Are you unaware that Sanger Sequencing exists, and the actual lesions can be read? Or that heterologous genes are being introduced with CRISPR methods? Neither of these common results can be explained by the spontaneous insertion of hundreds of nucleotides that happen to precisely match the sequence of the construct b…

>"Are you unaware that Sanger Sequencing exists, and the actual lesions can be read? Or that heterologous genes are being introduced with CRISPR methods? Neither of these common results can be explained by the spontaneous insertion of hundreds of nucleotides that happen to precisely match the sequence of the construct being inserted."

The first is just as consistent with the selection mechanism, because low levels of baseline mutants ARE reported (see the Schumann et al and Hendel et al papers I linked to in this thread for examples).

The second would indeed be difficult to explain with a selection mechanism, unfortunately I have not seen that actually published. Instead, the primers used can just as well be amplifying the template and/or the sequence of the inserted cassette is not shown (eg Figure 2D and S1 here: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/348/6233/442 )

If you have a reference to a specific paper I would appreciate it.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#74
post #15

I have never seen a paper on CRISPR that can distinguish between selecting pre-existing mutants and actually modifying genes. I have read probably a dozen or so at this point, and it is amazing that they always fail to address this either in citations or actual data. At first I thought it was an honest mistake, but now it would not surprise me if some of the main players know that their experiments with CRISPR have b…

Lol, what, just what... the biophysics of the Cas9 system are understood pretty well. We literally get as close as you can get to observing the accepted mechanism of action. How would you explain the consistency of site specific gene integration? You can't be selecting from existing mutants and "just happen" to get your transgenic product inserted at the exact site you specified. Your comment is just absurd. You also…

What experiment in that paper do you think addresses the issue of selection vs modification? Both require the cleavage of specific DNA sequences, that is all I see reported in Gasiunas et al 2012.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#75

This is part of an ongoing dispute between Jinek et al at Berkeley and Zhang et al at the Broad Institute. Both groups did important work on CRISPR-CAS9, and now they're fighting over credit, a patent, and (probably) a Nobel prize. Eric Lander, head of the Broad Institute, recently published an article "The Heroes of CRISPR" which emphasizes his own institution's role and downplays Berkeley's. Michael Eisen, a profes…

My experience with software patents makes me believe that Lander and Zhang, being part of the group that most aggressively pursued patents, are scam artists that should be drummed out of science forever. I actually have to remind myself not to feel hostility toward them.

I know it's not valid reasoning but it would be almost certainly right in software. I'm pretty sure software patents are poisoning the whole patent system both from the inside and in public opinion.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between exclusive licensing and non-exclusive licensing. New drugs (like penicillin) tend to be exclusively licensed because of the costs involved in regulatory approval, and that can slow down technology diffusion - the wrong licensee can sink the technology. But enabling technologies (like CRSPR) get licensed non-exclusively, particularly when the patent holder is an academic institution. I…

There is a big difference between PCR and CRISPR though. Whilst PCR is effectively a reading technology, CRISPR is a writing technology. For many medical technologies then PCR is a standalone diagnostic tool (it is HUGE in mol. biol., pathology, biotech). However you can quite easily see CRISPR being a core tech within revolutionary deliverable medical treatments. As Eisen points out its kind of odd that the group wh…

Yes, exclusively licensing CRISPR on an indication-by-indication basis as a therapeutic itself (as someone below has suggested has already happened by Broad) would be worrisome.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#77

As time goes on, I'm understanding more and more that academic science, which I had naively imagined to be a pure endeavor prosecuted by good-hearted individuals on humanity's behalf, is in fact as dominated by powerful, acquisitive individuals who are more interested in advancing their own power than in human good, knowledge, etc. The pursuit of IP is taking over the university, much to its detriment.

This is about right, but I think you're not properly weighting the rising role of institutional corporatism at research universities. The push for "translational" research was not driven by scientists. Scientists are not idiots, of course. They know when they have something useful. But the institutions built enormous offices filled with lawyers and finance types to promote and manage their "IP portfolios," as if schools suddenly became VCs. The proceeds from this portfolio feeds back only fractionally into research and education, but primarily it funds a vicious circle of administrative executives and contractors who are the main beneficiaries.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#78

This is part of an ongoing dispute between Jinek et al at Berkeley and Zhang et al at the Broad Institute. Both groups did important work on CRISPR-CAS9, and now they're fighting over credit, a patent, and (probably) a Nobel prize. Eric Lander, head of the Broad Institute, recently published an article "The Heroes of CRISPR" which emphasizes his own institution's role and downplays Berkeley's. Michael Eisen, a profes…

After reading the article, it appears that the author shares your position that both groups should share the credit, FWIW

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#79
post #20

I hate the fact that breakthroughs like this are patentable. People need to follow Alexander Flemings lead: The pharmacist Sir Alexander Fleming is revered not just because of his discovery of penicillin – the antibiotic that has saved millions of lives – but also due to his efforts to ensure that it was freely available to as much of the world’s population as possible. Fleming could have become a hugely wealthy man…

If CRISPR gets/stays patented, the part of the world that respects patent law is going to get left out of whatever innovations it yields. Or maybe not completely left behind, but the groups that will be able to license it will number few. I generally agree that discoveries like this should go in the public domain as quickly as possible. The pissing contest about "who invented what, when" is fine and good, to a point;…

> let the thousand flowers bloom

This is a problematic phrase: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#80
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will take millions of dollars of research to turn this basic bioengineering technique into an approved (safe and effective) human therapy. How do you motivate investors to fund this research without the safety net of a patent to protect that investment from free-loaders?

The way it was done before patents -- government funded research institutions whose only motivation was to provide scientific breakthroughs so they could continue to receive government funding.

What if someone want to cure a disease that the government doesn't care about?
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