Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#261

Post by ytjohn » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 1:19 AM UTC

wang_li wrote: post #65

mapgrep wrote: post #9

My money is on a wifi SSID that matches the one used by thieves or a heavily-trafficked location the victims all pass through. My company moved ~5 blocks and it really screwed up the map on my phone (which I use to get around the city) for several months. My company had left the network SSID the same in the old location, so that no one had to re-configure their wifi. Even with GPS on, my phone was always convinced it…

It seems much more likely that there is some bogus location data set somewhere that improperly links SIDS and GPS coordinates or filters fail and result some index into a GPS table that happens to correspond to this couple's home. If I were these two people, I'd contact the local police department every single time anyone shows up at their house and require that the PD fill out a report of some kind and keep it in a…

I too was thinking that a big laminated sign on their door or front porch that says "WE DO NOT HAVE YOUR PHONE", followed with a paper describing that their location is commonly given out when more accurate location is not available. Now that they've had some press, a pamphlet box (like realtors use) containing printouts of some articles would deter most people.

It might make some people more suspicious ('maybe this is how they cover it up'), but should send most people on your way. Your idea of having a police report on file and contacting the local police department is even better.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#262

Post by Houshalter » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 4:14 AM UTC

wang_li wrote: post #253

Houshalter wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And only 1% of those users will have their phones stolen, and only 0.01% of those users will be suspected kidnapping victims. So only a handful of people would actually be actually be inconvenienced by such a policy.

The way this would work out in a proper world, is that the search would take place, they'd realize it was fruitless and that the location information provided was incorrect and then the phone manufacturer and the cell phone company would each cut a check for $1,000,000 to the person who was false accused. And this would happen each and every single time a person's civil rights were violated because some product devel…

You aren't owed a million dollars because your house was falsely searched. That's absurd. The police have a right to do searches if there is decent evidence or suspicion of a crime, and 99% is way more than enough for probable cause. A 1% failure rate is actually incredibly good and means it will be very very rare for innocent people to get searched at all.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#263

Post by simoncion » Sat, Jan 23, 2016, 7:58 AM UTC

datenwolf wrote: post #242

simoncion wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe private data like BSSIDs... Is it private when you're screaming it on the street corner for everyone to hear? If we're talking about vocal utterances, the law says "no". It's... disappointing that the addition of a computer to a activity makes people lose sight of the similarities between that activity and very similar ones that have long-settled legal treatment. Edit: To drive the point home: There are many…

> Is it private when you're screaming it on the street corner for everyone to hear? Yes, it is, if the screaming is between you and another person and not addressed at the public. > If we're talking about vocal utterances, the law says "no" Actually the law says "yes". At least in all the countries in which secrecy of telecommunications laws are in place. The general outline has been laid out by the ITU and the parap…

> Yes, it is, if the screaming is between you and another person and not addressed at the public.

CPC 632 disagrees with you. California is a two-party consent state when it comes to recording of conversations, but it does not require consent of both of the communicating parties if "...the parties to the communication may reasonably expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded." [0]

I expect that you'd be hard-pressed to find a judge who would buy your theory that someone screaming out in public on the street corner would not reasonably expect that their communication might be overheard... regardless of to whom they were addressing their screams.

> Actually the law says "yes". At least in all the countries in which secrecy of telecommunications laws are in place. ... The general outline has been laid out by the ITU...

AFAIK, telecommunications law does not cover shouting-with-one's-vocal-cords-without-electronic-assistance-in-public. Do you have court decisions or rulings (that were not later overturned) that say otherwise?

[0] http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-632.html

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#264

Post by wwweston » Mon, Jan 25, 2016, 6:59 AM UTC

anikamariam wrote: post #155

wwweston wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How dumb would the officer look if he let a suspect destroy evidence, escape, or otherwise pull something on the claim that they have to pee? There's a lot of ways in which the American system is deliberately set up to let some of the guilty go free and requires a certain degree of responsibility for those detained, charged, or imprisoned in order to preserve a set of rights that are important related to basic huma…

what the hell are you talking about? no one cares how you think the laws should be. The laws are the way they are. The police can detain you if they have reasonable suspicion to believe you are involved in a crime in any way this was 100% legal according to the laws. no one cares what your fantasy interpretation is

> no one cares how you think the laws should be. The laws are the way they are.

The laws are the way they're written, and the way they're read, and open to discussion and revision on both sides. If you're upset or threatened by that (and I can't see any other reason for some of the gratuitous hostility in your comment), perhaps your position isn't anywhere near as strong as you might like your bluster to communicate, and perhaps it would be better to find some less distressing activity with which to pass time than discuss it on the internet.

> the police can detain you if they have reasonable suspicion to believe you are involved in a crime in any way

This isn't the point of contention at all. That's whether it's reasonable and legal to deny detainees access to a toilet on the basis that they might escape or might destroy evidence.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#265

Post by beeboop » Mon, Jan 25, 2016, 7:20 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #252

beeboop wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also say civilized society depends on people providing reasonable aid to those who need it in emergency situations, but doing stuff like grabbing a child to prevent them from stepping in front of a car has lead to many child abduction charges. That isn't to say that I wouldn't help the child in that situation, but more to say there are situations where doing the right thing and not becoming a victim of the…

> grabbing a child to prevent them from stepping in front of a car has lead to many child abduction charges This is not true. I challenge you to find even a single instance of this happening. You appear to have an overly paranoid view of how the world operates that's likely based on very little actual interaction with law enforcement.

I appreciate you calling me out on this - This is an anecdote I recall from over a decade ago but in Googling have no found any instances of it, so I will stop using it.

A better example is breaking a car window to save a child locked in a hot car during the summer. To be fair, many places create good Samaritan laws to protect this sort of behavior.

I agree I more alert than others on the topic, but I disagree that it's unfounded or paranoia. My beliefs may cause me some headache in the future but I will accept the high risk of headache over the small risk of severe injustice.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#266

Post by beeboop » Mon, Jan 25, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

nommm-nommm wrote: post #259

beeboop wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure they have your phone number too. They are welcome to call me, though I wouldn't necessarily answer any questions.

What? They did not have my phone number, thats why they came to my house. They tracked me down when they recovered my property but they didn't find a current phone number (only my old one) but did find my address. It was something I did not even know was missing. I didn't go to them, I didn't file a police report, they came to me. They went out of their way to track down the owner of the property they recovered.

It seems unlikely there is no way for police to find a cell phone number attached to a physical address.