Show HN: A Forth-inspired game to teach kids programming • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: A Forth-inspired game to teach kids programming

#11

Post by claystu » Mon, Jan 25, 2016, 1:55 PM UTC

I don't think any kid--or adult for that matter--without experience in Forth would be able to figure this out. Even if they did, it wouldn't teach them programming.

All I saw were stack manipulation puzzles. Granted, I quit at the (oddly depicted) swap puzzle, so maybe it gets better, but I didn't see any sign of that.

At a minimum, provide help, hints, points for passing a level, and some kind of roadmap of what I will accomplish if I finish the game.

Edit: If you want to find out more about Forth, here is a tutorial from the One Laptop Per Child site: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Forth_Lesson_0

Re: Show HN: A Forth-inspired game to teach kids programming

#12

Post by SixSigma » Mon, Jan 25, 2016, 2:33 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #9

SixSigma wrote: post #3

I like the principle, but sorry to be neg, but the execution is awful. Stacks don't slide sideways. They pop and push and operate. That's what you should animate, the actions . Having the operator in the top left is very odd. What's that number for? The speed of the animation. Why bother, it is meaningless.

I didn't think it was that bad - just needs a tutorial or at least some kind of explanation. And some tooltips... I kind of enjoyed it in a weird way. Disclaimer: have done a few years of PostScript programming.

Still nope. The things it animates and has big buttons for are not the things it is trying to teach - the operations of a stack.

I think the idea of a stack based "game" is a good one. Though as a Forth programmer I already play that game :)

Re: Show HN: A Forth-inspired game to teach kids programming

#13

Post by hillaryan314 » Mon, Jan 25, 2016, 2:38 PM UTC

Thank you for all the comments. I've got to run off to work, but I thought I would give some quick responses to your thoughts: 0) The general idea here is that there aren't instructions, tool tips, or other helpful hints. You learn as you go by clicking around. 1) In my own testing of the game, I've found that kids like it this way and I've been surprised by how they can pick things up. Even my mother was able to make it through the game and she hasn't written a line of code in her life. 2) That being said, I've also tested the game on professionals and found that they don't perform much better and sometimes are worse than the kids. They seem less willing to play around and make mistakes.

Just my two cents...

Re: Show HN: A Forth-inspired game to teach kids programming

#14

Post by protomyth » Mon, Jan 25, 2016, 3:16 PM UTC

Nice, but the whole operation on the bottom of the stack as opposed to the top really made it hard. Great work and thanks for trying to bring something simple to kids.

I'm thinking of doing a stamp, move, spin type programming for an pre-intro course in programming.

Re: Show HN: A Forth-inspired game to teach kids programming

#15

Post by tekromancr » Mon, Jan 25, 2016, 3:43 PM UTC

claystu wrote: post #11

I don't think any kid--or adult for that matter--without experience in Forth would be able to figure this out. Even if they did, it wouldn't teach them programming. All I saw were stack manipulation puzzles. Granted, I quit at the (oddly depicted) swap puzzle, so maybe it gets better, but I didn't see any sign of that. At a minimum, provide help, hints, points for passing a level, and some kind of roadmap of what I w…

I have no experiance with forth, and I had a really fun time puzzling out the rules for the game.

Re: Show HN: A Forth-inspired game to teach kids programming

#16

Post by tekromancr » Mon, Jan 25, 2016, 3:46 PM UTC

This is really cool! I really had a blast with it. I think it is just missing a few points on the ui side, but like I said, I am just in love with this game right now. I kinda wish I could play this on the train. Is source available? I would kinda like to poke around a bit.

Re: Show HN: A Forth-inspired game to teach kids programming

#17

Post by Temjin » Mon, Jan 25, 2016, 6:22 PM UTC

It took me a lot of random clicking to even get to stage one. Then after some more random clicking and some blocks moving around I got to stage 2.

You really need to consult a graphic designer for the UI.

Also, explain more. As an adult I was ready to give up by stage 2, how are kids going to figure this out.

I hope you find this feedback helpful.

Re: Show HN: A Forth-inspired game to teach kids programming

#18

Post by monkeycantype » Mon, Jan 25, 2016, 9:37 PM UTC

just been playing this with my 6 six year old who has no experience in forth and she figured out 'the anchor' (drop) and the 'printer' (duplicate). I suspect this happened quicker for her than it might have for some adults because she was quite happy to click on everything until stuff happened and a pattern emerged. though eventually (level 1_6) the sequence of operations got too long for her

Re: Show HN: A Forth-inspired game to teach kids programming

#19

Post by Dylan16807 » Tue, Jan 26, 2016, 2:17 AM UTC

gravypod wrote: post #8

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vaguely remember a little Forth, and I had no idea what was going on either.

This does not seem to have anything to do with forth. This seems to be a game about manipulating a stack.

A stack machine running a series of operations like drop, dup, pick...

Re: Show HN: A Forth-inspired game to teach kids programming

#20

Post by littlebeep » Tue, Jan 26, 2016, 5:16 AM UTC

Enjoyable! I like it more as a work of graphic design than a "teaching game" -- it's remarkable how much can be done with shapes and without words. I think "teaching programming" is something that should be done with words, but getting kids interested in sequential, programming-style puzzles is also worth something.

What would be a good place for a kid to go after finishing the game, that would carry forward what they saw on MtS?