Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley • Hacker News Board

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#291

Post by tomcam » Sun, Jan 24, 2016, 2:14 AM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #285

tomcam wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ambition != working hard and smart Spoken like a critic. Not a producer. I know lots and lots of smart people who know how to criticize but not to create.

Yeah, that's a standard rhetorical catch-22. Virtuous people always succeed, so anyone who doesn't succeed is by definition not virtuous--the system works! It's the same kind of thinking as "If God doesn't answer your prayers, it's your fault for not praying hard enough," or "Communism cannot fail, it can only be failed."

Nothing to do with virtue. I have seen bad people succeed with the same techniques. Please read more carefully before you make irrelevant remarks. This does not serve you well.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#292

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 24, 2016, 5:01 AM UTC

paulv wrote: post #105

13thLetter wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then perhaps Ms. Johnson should take that up with 90% of the people who use the word "privilege" in arguments nowadays, because they're not using it the way she thinks they're using it.

I don't think it's solely Ms. Johnson's job to tell people that they're using the word wrong. Now that you know the meaning, you can help us spread the knowledge (like I did by sharing that link).

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Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#293

Post by jmspring » Sun, Jan 24, 2016, 6:05 AM UTC

jmspring wrote: post #50

robgibbons wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously have no idea what it's like to grow up poor. The fear, the guilt, the frustration, and the exhaustion that you learn almost as if through sheer osmosis from your parents. The author is not arguing that you literally cannot compete if you're poor. But it's the very mindset from growing up in poverty that, through almost every interaction you have in childhood, leads you to _believe_ that you cannot compe…

I get the author's point, but the style of writing came across as a bit too "poor me" at times. Supporting family is not something that just happens for those that worked their way up from poor households, the last recession also has created situations where people now who came from middle class backgrounds may be the provider for their family based on poor decisions by their parents.

The down voting without comment is always interesting..

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#294

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 24, 2016, 6:43 AM UTC

ginsurge wrote: post #103

This really resonates with me, I was the first person in my family to go to university, and my grandparents had to work multiple jobs when they migrated from Europe in order to survive. My dad did slightly better, but both my parents only had high school education and worked blue collar jobs. It does make it really hard to change your mindset when you come from this sort of background, when you've achieved more than…

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Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#295

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 24, 2016, 6:58 AM UTC

mempko wrote: post #156

Excellent post. But I feel that we need to go beyond talking about what we can personally do to improve our situation. Either the vast majority of people are ill-adapted for success, or something else is going on. I think we should go beyond the classic argument "If we just all recycle, the world will..." Or "If we all buy electric cars, global warm....". This post had some of that individualistic attitude to a much…

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Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#296

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 24, 2016, 7:00 AM UTC

bluishgreen wrote: post #267

Paul Graham is my one of my biggest programming heroes. He single-handedly changed the way I think about and do programming about a decade back, and I am eternally grateful for it. One of the biggest lessons I got from him is "succinctness is power". That essay was a game changer both in terms of the math work and the programming work I do. Here is one instance where that powerful way of thinking runs head on into a…

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Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#297

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 24, 2016, 7:21 AM UTC

spangry wrote: post #234

haberman wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's frustrating, not a single critique I've seen of PG's essay (including this one) seem to understand what he is actually saying. This essay supports PG's point, it doesn't contradict it. PG's essay calls out "kids with no chance of reaching their potential" as "very bad" aspect of inequality in the fourth paragraph! What essay did you read?

I just read the PG essay and have to agree with the parent post. From what I can see, his argument boils down to this: increasing wealth concentration is caused by many things. Some of these things are 'bad' (e.g. rent-seeking, bribing politicians) in and of themselves, and should be addressed. Some of these things are 'good' (e.g. economic productivity varies from person to person, all other things equal), and it wo…

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Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#298

Post by jdenning » Sun, Jan 24, 2016, 7:31 AM UTC

cparker15 wrote: post #286

jdenning wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off-topic, but I wanted to say that I really appreciate this comment/clarification - the matter-of-fact tone makes the point without getting anyone's back up, which (IMHO) is exactly the right way to reach hearts and minds. I'm pretty bad about defaulting to masculine pronouns myself, and this simple exchange has done a lot to motivate me to break that habit (I would have also assumed your gender to be male, and woul…

Thank you for this comment. I suffer severely from low self esteem and impostor syndrome. Coworkers from several previous jobs have even gone so far as to tell me they thought I was a genius, and it made me feel immensely guilty every time. I'm going to try putting some of your suggestions into practice. I'm at a crossroads in my career, having recently been separated from my job due to budget cuts. Even though my jo…

I've been there :). If there's anything I can do to help, feel free to reach out!

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#299

Post by PhasmaFelis » Sun, Jan 24, 2016, 7:44 AM UTC

tomcam wrote: post #291

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's a standard rhetorical catch-22. Virtuous people always succeed, so anyone who doesn't succeed is by definition not virtuous--the system works! It's the same kind of thinking as "If God doesn't answer your prayers, it's your fault for not praying hard enough," or "Communism cannot fail, it can only be failed."

Nothing to do with virtue. I have seen bad people succeed with the same techniques. Please read more carefully before you make irrelevant remarks. This does not serve you well.

"Virtuous" was obviously shorthand for "working very, very hard and smart and" etc.

Re: Privilege and Inequality in Silicon Valley

#300

Post by tn13 » Sun, Jan 24, 2016, 8:46 AM UTC

neilk wrote: post #86

tn13 wrote: post #47

As an Indian immigrant when I see people complaining about Privilege and Inequality in SV (and in America) I feel like laughing. I lived in a society where everyone was almost the same, similar economic status, similar privilege etc. etc. Life sucked. I decided to move out to be among the top 10% instead of one of the 100%. I eventually ended up in SV. This place is awesome and the very reason I am here is because I…

Seriously? What caste did your family belong to? I'm allowed to ask these questions; the Indian side of my family are Brahmins, and boy does it show! Most of us walked straight from the lawyer/doctor/accountant/businessperson class in India into the lawyer/doctor/accountant/businessperson class in the USA and Canada. Sure things were difficult, but most of us had huge advantages.

I am a brahmin and my father was a poor farmer in India. The kind of poor you read in newspapers. I completed my education mostly on borrowed money from friends and relatives and through community scholarships. Now that I am in USA I realize half of my struggles in India were result of government control and government attempts to make things "equal" for everyone rather than just letting best people succeed. USA on the other hand is much better.