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Free the Law: all U.S. case law online

librarylab.law.harvard.edu

11–20 of 45 posts

Re: Free the Law: all U.S. case law online

#11
post #9

I'm curious how LexisNexis is going to attack this breach of their monopoly. Do they have patents on case law search?

LexisNexis doesn't have a monopoly. First, Thompson West's database is just as comprehensive. Second, most of the decisions are indexed online elsewhere (Justia, Google Scholar). Third, almost all the underlying opinions are available elsewhere. Contrary to popular belief, the dominance of Lexis/West doesn't come from having access to information other people don't. It comes from decades of experience in how to index…

No doubt LexisNexis and WestLaw have certain value added services that have certainly been developed through the years based on their positions as industry leaders, but you can't deny certain business practices that box out any potential free competitor.

Reflect back on your law school days. I bet you received a free student account to either or both LexisNexis and WestLaw (accounts worth thousands of dollars given for free through 3 years to train students on their programs); probably free training to your class from certified company representatives; donations to your school/creation of computer labs for exclusive rights to the students; etc...

I recognize your point about not being a monopoly, but that is in the Google - competition is only a click away - sense of the word, there are all kinds of anti-competitive practices and the marketplace reflects them.

If you want further indication of West willingness to engage in anti-trust/anti-competitive behavior take a look at Rodriquez v. West Publishing Corporation and Kaplan, Inc., where West for found to collude with Kaplan to create monopolies in Bar prep and LSAT review classes.

Re: Free the Law: all U.S. case law online

#12
post #2

They are projecting to have Federal and CA, NY, MA, IL, TX done in 2016, and the rest of the states in 2017. I'm curious why those particular states are being done first. In particular, I'd have expected Delaware to be in the first group, because so many public companies are incorporated there, and so the decisions of its courts on corporate and stockholder issues have major national importance. Offhand, I can't thin…

There is quite a bit of IP law handled in Texas thanks to patent trolls in East Texas. So I can see there being some interest in getting it covered. MA? Maybe it is interesting from a historical perspective since it is one of the older areas of the US.

Maybe because Harvard is in Massachusetts? ;-)

Re: Free the Law: all U.S. case law online

#13
post #2

They are projecting to have Federal and CA, NY, MA, IL, TX done in 2016, and the rest of the states in 2017. I'm curious why those particular states are being done first. In particular, I'd have expected Delaware to be in the first group, because so many public companies are incorporated there, and so the decisions of its courts on corporate and stockholder issues have major national importance. Offhand, I can't thin…

My guess: MA because that's where Harvard is located. Others because they have large populations.

Re: Free the Law: all U.S. case law online

#14
post #6

No, not "freely accessable online", not until the 8 year exclusivity agreement with Ravel expires. It's a pay service with a free tier.[1] "Under the Harvard-Ravel agreement, Ravel is paying all of the costs of digitizing case law. HLS owns the resulting data, and Ravel has an obligation to offer free public access to all of the digitized case law on its site and to provide non-profit developers with free ongoing API…

Ok, that's complicated enough that we took "freely accessible" out of the title above.

Re: Free the Law: all U.S. case law online

#15
No response.

---

To: Erik Eckholm

From: Aaron Greenspan

Date: October 30, 2015 at 1:31 PM

Subject: Concerns over Ravel/HLS Deal

Mr. Eckholm,

We just briefly spoke on the phone about your article (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/29/us/harvard-law-library-sac...). I am a Harvard College ’04-’05 alum, one of Professor Zittrain’s former students (I actually had to fight the administration to be permitted entry into his Law School course in 2001), and one of the first people Ravel tried to hire, because I am a programmer and I run a legal database called PlainSite (http://www.plainsite.org), which competes with them and receives about 16,000 unique hits daily worldwide. I was also a CodeX Fellow at Stanford Law School in 2012-2013, which is a program at Stanford that Daniel Lewis and Nik Reed are now also affiliated with. I tell you all of this only to point out that I am generally quite familiar with the principles, technologies and individuals involved here.

I’ve now corresponded with Jonathan Zittrain and Adam Ziegler at HLS, the latter by phone earlier today. I have brought to their attention a number of concerns, none of which have been resolved in my mind. They are as follows:

1. Harvard University is a Massachusetts not-for-profit organization. Its investment in Ravel, a for-profit corporation, via its XFund venture capital arm, and its subsequent contract with Ravel to earn "proceeds" (HLS’s term) from that relationship, involves profit. The University could in theory lose its tax-exempt status over this deal. This is not the same as the Harvard Management Corporation investing in for-profit corporations to further the University’s mission by earning capital gains and/or dividends—this is an exchange of cash for assets that Harvard claims it owns (even though case materials are public domain) and a contractual promise to monetize those assets through a for-profit company on an ongoing basis.

2. Worse yet, the deal involves profit from the withholding of public access to legal data, which is the precise ill that this relationship is nominally supposed to and claims to cure. In reality, it only exacerbates it by legitimizing, with all of Harvard’s imprimatur, the monopolistic legal information model that has dominated the nation’s judiciary for the past century and a half.

3. Professor Zittrain wrote an entire book on the dangers of internet lock-in and monopolies, yet his actions here are helping to create exactly the kind of monopoly he has become well known for warning about. According to Adam Ziegler’s recent post on the HLS Library blog (http://etseq.law.harvard.edu), there are to be "bulk access limitations" and "contractual prohibitions on redistribution." This is inconsistent with precedent concerning openness to court records and First Amendment law. That aside, what will these restrictions look like exactly? We don’t know, because…

4. ...Adam Ziegler told me that the contract with Ravel is not available for public examination and he did not know when it would be (if ever). He did read me a portion of the contract over the phone, which cited "non-commercial developers," and challenged me to come up with better wording. That’s easy. I don’t know what a "non-commercial developer" is, but I do know what a "non-profit organization" is. As an individual, I am a software developer who is the CEO of a for-profit corporation in a joint venture with a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization which together maintain PlainSite. Does that make me a "non-commercial developer?" Although Mr. Ziegler insisted that the contract was not subject to interpretation because it is simply clear enough already, I strongly disagree, as I expect any lawyer would. All contracts are subject to interpretation. The contract needs to be posted.

5. One of Ravel’s investors is Cooley LLP, a law firm in the Bay Area. Based on what Daniel and Nik have told me in the past, Cooley has early access to Ravel’s software. Essentially this means that Harvard Law School is giving one particular law firm an advantage, which I imagine must violate a number of its own policies, and seems wrong on the surface.

6. Professor Zittrain claims it would have taken 8 years to raise the money that Ravel is providing for this effort. This is extremely difficult to believe. Although Mr. Ziegler refused to disclose how much money is actually involved, we can safely assume it is in the $5 million range given that Ravel has only raised just under $10 million and has had employees to pay for several years. Recently, a single donor gave Harvard University’s engineering school $400 million, as your own newspaper reported (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/education/john-paulson-giv...). Harvard is also in the middle of a $6 billion-and-counting capital campaign, as reported by The Crimson (http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/9/18/capital-campaign...). Are we really to believe that the number one law school in the country (by some measures, anyway) could not scrape together the cash to buy its own scanners, or that it does not have scanners already? Are high speed scanners even that expensive? Here’s one on eBay for $1,450:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KODAK-i610-PASS-THROUGH-HIGH-SPEED-D...

7. Mr. Ziegler could not answer my question as to why a consortium of non-profits was not consulted ahead of time. I know many that would have been eager to assist, likely including the Internet Archive in San Francisco, which already has several scanners.

8. Though I do not speak for them, I did notice that Harvard and Ravel seem to have nearly appropriated the name "Free Law Project," which is actually a project and non-profit organization at Berkeley that took over from work at Princeton. See http://www.freelawproject.org and http://www.courtlistener.com.

9. The Harvard Gazette has falsely reported, "The 'Free the Law’ initiative will provide open, wide-ranging access to American case law for the first time in U.S. history." (See http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2015/10/free-the-law-w...) I have been in regular contact with Jonathan Zittrain, Harry Lewis (an XFund Advisor who was Dean during my freshman year) and others at HLS about PlainSite since I brought the idea to them in 2011 almost immediately as soon as I started working on it. Additionally, CourtListener (from the group at Berkeley) has also been in operation for years, offering open, wide-ranging access to American case law. There’s also Google Scholar, which is free and certainly more wide-ranging than Ravel.

10. Ravel is, to the best of my knowledge, unprofitable. It remains unclear why Harvard would place its bets on an unprofitable startup, rather than solicit donations for a project—as it is so adept at doing—in order to ensure maximum sustainability.

Mr. Ziegler attempted to dismiss the above concerns on the grounds that we still both agree in the greater goal of open access to law. I certainly have done all that I can to promote open access to legal information, including developing prototypes for digital legal data standards and suing the courts themselves (http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/29himg3wm/california-northe...). But if we both agree on this greater goal, then why has HLS been almost completely unresponsive to requests for cooperative assistance for the past four years, while this deal was being negotiated in secret?

To be clear, Harvard is not the only institution that has made highly questionable and insincere claims about its legal transparency efforts. Stanford CodeX claims to support open access to the law, yet it is now directly sponsored by Thomson Reuters, the parent company of West Publishing, and its "innovation contests" involve pledges not to redistribute case materials. But I would expect the Times to be able to distinguish between academic puffery and genuine efforts to improve the state of our incredibly broken legal system.

Aaron

PlainSite | http://www.plainsite.org

Re: Free the Law: all U.S. case law online

#16
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LexisNexis doesn't have a monopoly. First, Thompson West's database is just as comprehensive. Second, most of the decisions are indexed online elsewhere (Justia, Google Scholar). Third, almost all the underlying opinions are available elsewhere. Contrary to popular belief, the dominance of Lexis/West doesn't come from having access to information other people don't. It comes from decades of experience in how to index…

No doubt LexisNexis and WestLaw have certain value added services that have certainly been developed through the years based on their positions as industry leaders, but you can't deny certain business practices that box out any potential free competitor. Reflect back on your law school days. I bet you received a free student account to either or both LexisNexis and WestLaw (accounts worth thousands of dollars given f…

My agency just dumped Westlaw for cost reasons and now we are exclusively Lexis. Lexis is inferior in many ways. The subject indexes are not nearly as comprehensive or usable (makes sense, since West has a huge head start with this with its Key Number System.) The case summaries are too wordy.

Westlaw and Lexis both get big bucks to invest in their databases but then they are not at parity. So I doubt that some free (beer or speech) competitor is going to come along without those same resources and mount a serious challenge in the Lexis or Westlaw strongholds.

However, there is a reason Westlaw and Lexis are both going to Google-like interfaces with their next generation products (Westlaw Next and Lexis Advance). Attorneys are just going into Google now. Certainly if I'm looking for a news article I'm going to Google first, where years ago one might have done LexisNexis first. Even having to type my Lexis password is too big an impediment when I can get stuff on Google.

Also, when I don't need the firepower of Lexis I often go elsewhere. A lot of my work is just the CFR or US Code and the government has those for free, though the search capability is not as good.

So overall I doubt anti-competitive behavior explains much what dominance Westlaw and Lexis still do have (and I do think it's shrinking.) They have invested lots of money and these are professional tools that need lots of investment. The free (beer or speech) competitors aren't going to compete on the elements that need lots of investment, but they will nibble away at the things that Westlaw and Lexis were overkill for.

Re: Free the Law: all U.S. case law online

#17

No response. --- To: Erik Eckholm From: Aaron Greenspan Date: October 30, 2015 at 1:31 PM Subject: Concerns over Ravel/HLS Deal Mr. Eckholm, We just briefly spoke on the phone about your article ( http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/29/us/harvard-law-library-sac... ). I am a Harvard College ’04-’05 alum, one of Professor Zittrain’s former students (I actually had to fight the administration to be permitted entry into his…

"Its investment in Ravel, a for-profit corporation, via its XFund venture capital arm, and its subsequent contract with Ravel to earn "proceeds" (HLS’s term) from that relationship, involves profit."

Unrelated Business Income? As far as I know, non-profits can invest in for-profit entities with no problem. Even 100% ownership of a for-profit corporation by a 501(c)(3) is ok.

Not to say I don't disagree with your sentiment, but I think that argument is the wrong approach.

Re: Free the Law: all U.S. case law online

#18
post #6

No, not "freely accessable online", not until the 8 year exclusivity agreement with Ravel expires. It's a pay service with a free tier.[1] "Under the Harvard-Ravel agreement, Ravel is paying all of the costs of digitizing case law. HLS owns the resulting data, and Ravel has an obligation to offer free public access to all of the digitized case law on its site and to provide non-profit developers with free ongoing API…

Note that most of the states use lexis or someone and have exclusive rights deals with them as publishers. You can't really easily get feeds of cases (you can get the reporters, and then scan them, but this is not up to date).

So whatever they do will be out of date.

Re: Free the Law: all U.S. case law online

#19
post #2

They are projecting to have Federal and CA, NY, MA, IL, TX done in 2016, and the rest of the states in 2017. I'm curious why those particular states are being done first. In particular, I'd have expected Delaware to be in the first group, because so many public companies are incorporated there, and so the decisions of its courts on corporate and stockholder issues have major national importance. Offhand, I can't thin…

My guess: MA because that's where Harvard is located. Others because they have large populations.

Large populations of corporations: Delaware, NY, CA, Illinois

Large populations of lawsuits: Texas (IP), MA (civil rights)

People populations are less relevant.

Re: Free the Law: all U.S. case law online

#20
They have to digitize, in part, because all of the states have exclusive publication/etc agreements with westlaw or lexis or ....

So you can't get a feed of cases from pretty much anywhere, and often, you aren't allowed to bulk download, etc.

Plenty of folks have digitized all the data harvard is talking about here. They are not first. Carl malamud, for example, has scanned all the federal reporters and tons and tons of other cases. http://radar.oreilly.com/2007/08/carl-malamud-takes-on-westl...

and

https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/

(My experience here is from back in the early 2000's working on getting pacer/states/etc to open up all of this data, so we could get it into google scholar and elsewhere. Often, they were willing to sell it to us, but they would not let us pay them pretty much any amount of money to make it just open and freely available, which is what we really wanted. Things have not gotten better, sadly, and in fact, have gotten worse)

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