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The New York Times Introduces a Web Site (1996)

nytimes.com

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Re: The New York Times Introduces a Web Site (1996)

#41
After 20 years, they still are adapting to the 'new' platform. Look through their site with fresh eyes: If you were designing a news website (rather than moving a newspaper to this new platform), how many design, UI and functionality choices would you make differently?

A quick start:

* The separation of different forms of content: They don't really mix text with video, images and graphics, even though most web-native bloggers will do it. They seem to lack fluency with mixing media; it's a project for them. They'll staple a video and decorate text with images and graphics, but they don't really commuicate with it; they don't say, 'here's how Clinton responded to Sanders:" , or, 'here was the scene when the earthquake struck' , or even in a movie review, here's what the scene looks like: or . Instead, they try to describe the visual with text. Even explanatory graphics are a separate, special production, on a separate page.

* The font in their title: Back when printing fancy fonts was a technological feat, this font communicated that they were serious and sophisticated. Now, if you step back and ignore the history, it looks like a kid playing with fonts. (Look at it this way: would you ever use that font on a website you were designing?). It says, insists even: We're anchored to the paper age and will never let go. We're the old, dying generation. If you want something new, go elsewhere.

* The discoverability of content: Obviously mimicing a newspaper, but a bad choice for the web. How many links are on that home page (scroll down)? And even more content doesn't even appear there. All that hard work and content, unlikely ever to be found, buried and lost forever. It's tragic. But that's what they did in the hard copy newspaper so I guess it's ok.

* Also, where are stories updated since I visited a couple hours ago? Oh look, if I look at every link a red 'updated' indicator is next to some links (just like the web 20 years ago!), which I see if I examine every one of them (and how do I identify brand new links in this massive page of links?) - but where in this multi-page story are the new parts? I guess I'll just re-read the whole thing.

I say this all out of love. They are an very important institution. The news business is hard enough; stop handicapping yourselves! From the outside they look like they still, in 2015, haven't fully embraced the new technology. What would you say about another business' web team (that was not adapting a newspaper to the web) that produced a site that looked like this? Egads. [1]

EDIT: Some minor edits and additions

[1] I'm not blaming the web developers; I assume they are working within the general constraint of: Make it look like the newspaper.

Re: The New York Times Introduces a Web Site (1996)

#42
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, paying $3.75 a week (or in my case $1.88 since I have an .edu address) is worth it. It's about the same as a drink at Starbucks, and I do go to their website and also use their iPhone app every day.

My complaint is how they bundle the subscriptions: I'd like to have both the phone and tablet apps, but there's no discount given in accessing both. There's not so much extra effort in converting an article laid out for a phone to an article laid out for a tablet that it's worth an additional $5 a month.

Looks like that is being changed:

https://twitter.com/chartier/status/689867033031258113/photo...

Re: The New York Times Introduces a Web Site (1996)

#43
post #8

It's funny because this is the digital version of an article that was printed in a newspaper about that newspaper going digital. If only they had any idea of the pain they were about to cause themselves. :)

The pain would have come either way. Probably did better by understanding it's evolution then just ignoring it.

Re: The New York Times Introduces a Web Site (1996)

#44
post #3

The oldest snapshot on Archive.org is from November 1996: http://web.archive.org/web/19961112181513/http://www.nytimes... Back then, they even had a low-bandwidth version of the site: http://web.archive.org/web/19990117023050/http://www.nytimes... The website included various tutorials on how to use it, including a guide that covers the different browsers. None of the browsers listed are actively developed today: htt…

Love low bandwidth versions of sites. I use http://thin.npr.org most of the time and it's great.

Re: The New York Times Introduces a Web Site (1996)

#45

After 20 years, they still are adapting to the 'new' platform. Look through their site with fresh eyes: If you were designing a news website (rather than moving a newspaper to this new platform), how many design, UI and functionality choices would you make differently? A quick start: * The separation of different forms of content: They don't really mix text with video, images and graphics, even though most web-native…

> how many design, UI and functionality choices would you make differently?

I'd start by not hijacking clicks with JavaScript. In Firefox, double clicking the body of the article (which I do often to search for terms in the article) changes the font size (??), clicking in some parts of the body activates a link to another article. It's been like this for years.

Re: The New York Times Introduces a Web Site (1996)

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder which big company will say, "Enough is enough. We are just irritating our readers/customers with all the lag time, and utter confusion." Right now, if I see a website winding up; I hit that X with the speed of a mouse hitting the stimulant lever. I don't think I'm alone.

None because the majority of users don't care and click those social links.

Not necessarily the majority of users, but the users who draw in more traffic. Sites court some users more than others.

Similarly, sites that sell products don't care how many users they have, they care how many users buy. And they optimize accordingly.

Re: The New York Times Introduces a Web Site (1996)

#47
post #45

After 20 years, they still are adapting to the 'new' platform. Look through their site with fresh eyes: If you were designing a news website (rather than moving a newspaper to this new platform), how many design, UI and functionality choices would you make differently? A quick start: * The separation of different forms of content: They don't really mix text with video, images and graphics, even though most web-native…

> how many design, UI and functionality choices would you make differently? I'd start by not hijacking clicks with JavaScript. In Firefox, double clicking the body of the article (which I do often to search for terms in the article) changes the font size (??), clicking in some parts of the body activates a link to another article. It's been like this for years.

Tip: The website works better with JavaScript disabled. Occasionally you need to turn it on for some special graphics, but 99% of the time I'm happier without it.

Re: The New York Times Introduces a Web Site (1996)

#48

After 20 years, they still are adapting to the 'new' platform. Look through their site with fresh eyes: If you were designing a news website (rather than moving a newspaper to this new platform), how many design, UI and functionality choices would you make differently? A quick start: * The separation of different forms of content: They don't really mix text with video, images and graphics, even though most web-native…

[deleted]

Re: The New York Times Introduces a Web Site (1996)

#49

After 20 years, they still are adapting to the 'new' platform. Look through their site with fresh eyes: If you were designing a news website (rather than moving a newspaper to this new platform), how many design, UI and functionality choices would you make differently? A quick start: * The separation of different forms of content: They don't really mix text with video, images and graphics, even though most web-native…

Just because something is in vogue doesn't mean it is the right answer in the long term. Their mission is NOT about generating more pageviews in the short term to rack up ad revenue but stick to being a reliable source of information. Outlets like Buzzfeed have their own place but that doesn't mean New York Times need to "adapt" to become one of those. That's the worst decision they can make. People who go to New York Times are not there because they're bored and want to read the next "what sex and the city character are you?". They are there because they want to stay on top of only what matters today, which means not everyone will appreciate it if the front page is an infinite scroll page of links. Also your opinion about their font is your opinion. I am fond of it. Lastly, there are tons of articles with embedded media, here's one: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/20/nyregion/bronx-school-embr...

Re: The New York Times Introduces a Web Site (1996)

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish I was a web developer in 1996! As someone who was actually developing websites in the years 1996-1999... no, you really, really don't. CSS1 was released in December 1996, just to give you an idea.

So you basically didn't give a shit about how the website looks and just focused on the content? Sounds cool :)

I only wish. The marketers were in full force. We'd do "slice and dice" design, where a designer would mock up the full page as single graphic in Photoshop, then we'd slice that image into multiple, and reassemble in tables (no reliable CSS!) with font tags.

Today we argue about how much JS is too much, or if there is such a thing, but back then if you wanted the markup to change you sent a request to the backend and rerendered the entire page with the small change you desired.

Loading a page was an exercise in patience, as a first pass on a _decent_ page would get you the text and highly pixelated images, then subsequent passes (and you could watch the screen redraw from the top down multiple times) would reduce the pixelation to LESS BUT STILL pixelated versions.

Some sites were just Word documents that had been "Save as HTML" -> These could be MB of markup, and basically impossible to edit.

Plus, almost immediately, the browser wars began and rather than arguing over how to push the standards, they had none, and just tried to establish their own, incompatible vision.

Basically, once the general populace was the target for content, you were no longer allowed to just worry about the content.

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