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It's Time to End the War on Salt (2011)

scientificamerican.com

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Re: It's Time to End the War on Salt (2011)

#61

Post by jimrandomh »

hmottestad wrote: post #9
jimrandomh wrote: post #5

To me, the story of salt strongly highlights the difference between science (as in, the results of scientific experiments and careful reasoning), and "science", the things the general public is told science has found by journalists and policymakers. Not only was there was never a strong scientific basis for telling people to reduce their salt intake, my anecdotal observation is that it's fairly easy to wind up salt-d…

Just looked up a bag of chips: 100g: 525 cal 1.5 g salt Multiply by ~3.8: 380g: 2000 cal 5.7 g salt Your mileage may vary, but in Norway, a typical bag of chips contains more than 3.5g of salt per 2000 calories.

I think this is a difference between Norway and the United States.

Re: It's Time to End the War on Salt (2011)

#62

Post by JoeAltmaier »

jimrandomh wrote: post #5

To me, the story of salt strongly highlights the difference between science (as in, the results of scientific experiments and careful reasoning), and "science", the things the general public is told science has found by journalists and policymakers. Not only was there was never a strong scientific basis for telling people to reduce their salt intake, my anecdotal observation is that it's fairly easy to wind up salt-d…

Back on the farm we always had a bottle of 'salt pills' on the dashboard of the pickup. Anybody who felt the effects of the sun was encouraged to suck on one.

Re: It's Time to End the War on Salt (2011)

#63

Post by appleflaxen »

jimrandomh wrote: post #5

To me, the story of salt strongly highlights the difference between science (as in, the results of scientific experiments and careful reasoning), and "science", the things the general public is told science has found by journalists and policymakers. Not only was there was never a strong scientific basis for telling people to reduce their salt intake, my anecdotal observation is that it's fairly easy to wind up salt-d…

what is "salt pica"? the only thing I see on google is eating actual table salt. it seems like you are talking about something else.

Re: It's Time to End the War on Salt (2011)

#64

Post by beachstartup »

buu700 wrote: post #60
beachstartup wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for keto here. the only real downside is that it's extremely difficult to maintain the discipline to avoid carbs! also the social aspects.

I would actually say that it's extremely easy, but only because any carb cravings I may have are met with the flour/sugar substitutes and pre-baked goods from LC Foods (holdthecarbs.com), along with other common carb replacements like shirataki noodles. It's pretty nice that I can freely eat awesome dishes like pizza with the crust fried in clarified butter that people who aren't on a high-fat diet would never touch.…

yeah, sure, all that stuff. but it's still hard to not order fries when i go out to eat.

the reason i got fat in the first place is because i love, love, love, love, love carbs. real honest to god carbs, not half-assed replacement like fake noodles.

Re: It's Time to End the War on Salt (2011)

#65

Post by buu700 »

beachstartup wrote: post #64
buu700 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would actually say that it's extremely easy, but only because any carb cravings I may have are met with the flour/sugar substitutes and pre-baked goods from LC Foods (holdthecarbs.com), along with other common carb replacements like shirataki noodles. It's pretty nice that I can freely eat awesome dishes like pizza with the crust fried in clarified butter that people who aren't on a high-fat diet would never touch.…

yeah, sure, all that stuff. but it's still hard to not order fries when i go out to eat. the reason i got fat in the first place is because i love, love, love, love, love carbs. real honest to god carbs, not half-assed replacement like fake noodles.

Ah, then maybe it's just easier for me because I've never really liked fries and have always seen noodles as nothing more than vessels for sauces/cheeses/meats/etc. (a common complaint about shirataki is that it's flavourless, but to me good quality shirataki is indistinguishable from ramen noodles — probably because I'd never noticed any particular flavour of noodles to begin with).

Re: It's Time to End the War on Salt (2011)

#66

Post by rapala »

metafunctor wrote: post #25
dnate wrote: post #23

What I find interesting is that this issue about sodium being unhealthy never really reached Europe (or at least Germany). While the US was advertising "low sodium" on their products we are still mostly advertising "low fat" and have some "low carb" pioneers. It seems to me that the whole "sodium is bad" scheme was a poorly supported health tip gone viral.

Reducing sodium intake has been a thing doctors recommend in Finland, at least. Ask any nurse, and they will tell you that sodium intake is definitely connected with high blood pressure and heart disease. Also, they will tell you need to drink lots of milk to keep your bones strong. Also a piece of "science" on it's way out.

I was under the impression that many Finns have a genetical risk of hypertension. Thus studies about the link between salt intake and hypertension have been conducted, for example http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17046432. I haven't actually read the paper, but the abstract has this claim:

"During the past 30 years, the one-third decrease in the average salt intake has been accompanied by a more than 10-mm Hg fall in the population average of both systolic and diastolic blood pressure, and a 75% to 80% decrease in both stroke and coronary heart disease mortality in Finland."

Re: It's Time to End the War on Salt (2011)

#67

Post by Outdoorsman »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #6
Outdoorsman wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think the jury is still somewhat "out"...salt sensitivity variations are difficult to test for... It is fairly well known that reducing salt intake lowers blood pressure...that has been prescribed for decades, with proven results.... Modern carbs, especially those that are "processed", very often have salt added...no doubt we get too much from modern diets.... Sounds as your dilemma is similar to that of humans from…

The article specifically points out the scientifically demonstrated opposite relationship between salt intake and blood pressure than the one you have stated here. "It is fairly well known" is nearly always weaselspeak for unfounded opinion, especially in this case. I'm tired of this from people who discuss eating habits, because personal changes are personal yet many people interpret them as scientific. If you argue…

I understand your point...

By my reading, the article simply presents evidence that a "broad recommendation" that the public reduce salt consumption may not justified...included is one of the reasons I mention in the first sentence of my reply--the variation in salt-sensitivity from individual to individual in a population...some will benefit, others may see either very marginal gains, or none at all...

We disagree on whether or not the article presents evidence of a scientifically "opposite" relationship...suggesting that there is not enough evidence to support proposing a course of action is not the same as saying that proposing that course of action is clearly contraindicated...

A reduction in salt intake is one of several recommendations that a physician will make if you're diagnosed with hypertension...there are others...weight loss, exercise, medication, etc...any, or all combined, may contribute to lowering your blood pressure...if you have a high salt-sensitivity, as some segments of the population do, you can expect gains...if not, then not...

Recommending bodies, in instances like this, primarily concern themselves with an intended effect on a population...statistics serve a purpose, but don't as readily apply to individuals, as you correctly infer later on in your reply...e.g.,"your mileage may vary"...

Science is a beautiful self-correcting mechanism...given time...it may eventually be decided that recommending salt reduction is harmful as a general strategy...in that case your contention that a "scientifically demonstrated opposite relationship" is what's being pointed out in the article may be eventually be validated...

I don't think we're there yet...hence, I think the jury is still "out"...

Re: It's Time to End the War on Salt (2011)

#68

Post by jimrandomh »

appleflaxen wrote: post #63
jimrandomh wrote: post #5

To me, the story of salt strongly highlights the difference between science (as in, the results of scientific experiments and careful reasoning), and "science", the things the general public is told science has found by journalists and policymakers. Not only was there was never a strong scientific basis for telling people to reduce their salt intake, my anecdotal observation is that it's fairly easy to wind up salt-d…

what is "salt pica"? the only thing I see on google is eating actual table salt. it seems like you are talking about something else.

"X pica" in my local dialect means "doing something because you need or want X, when that doesn't provide it". It's a generalition of the medical condition pica, which is eating non-food things like ice cubes because you need more iron.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/15w/experiential_pica/

Re: It's Time to End the War on Salt (2011)

#69

Post by thaumasiotes »

jimrandomh wrote: post #61
hmottestad wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just looked up a bag of chips: 100g: 525 cal 1.5 g salt Multiply by ~3.8: 380g: 2000 cal 5.7 g salt Your mileage may vary, but in Norway, a typical bag of chips contains more than 3.5g of salt per 2000 calories.

I think this is a difference between Norway and the United States.

The major difference appears to be the label's use of "salt" rather than "sodium" as in the US.

Using the data from my other comment, and assuming the potassium in the potato chips is also "salt", the 2000 Calories of US potato chips contain 7.25 grams of salt, of which 3.05g is sodium chloride and 4.2g is potassium chloride.

Re: It's Time to End the War on Salt (2011)

#70

Post by areyousure »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #10
hmottestad wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just looked up a bag of chips: 100g: 525 cal 1.5 g salt Multiply by ~3.8: 380g: 2000 cal 5.7 g salt Your mileage may vary, but in Norway, a typical bag of chips contains more than 3.5g of salt per 2000 calories.

Looked up a nutrition label online: https://healthyeatingrocks.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/lays-... 1 oz: 150 Calories 180 mg sodium multiply by 20/3: 6.667 oz: 2000 Calories 1.2g sodium The kosher salt in my cupboard (ingredients: salt and an anti-caking agent) is 40% sodium by mass (480 mg sodium per 1.2 grams). Or, going by the atomic mass listed here ( http://www.chemicalelements.com/show/mass.html ), sodium chlo…

150 times 20/3 is 1000
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