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Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

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Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do parents track their children? Kids are tougher than parents credit them for. It's unfortunate that new technology will let parents hover forever. Luckily, they're resourceful. I wonder if it's possible to hack the app to send false location data? There are ways to jailbreak a phone that make it appear unjailbroken (e.g. to put a keylogger on it). Maybe this technique could be used to acquire freedom, by MITMin…

Why do parents track their children? Kids are tougher than parents credit them for. It's unfortunate that new technology will let parents hover forever. That's me. I "stalk" my children. Here's the long story of why. I live in a relatively safe area, the suburbs of Portland Oregon. There's a fair amount of petty property crime, which tends to be tolerated if not quite condoned. Fortunately the region has generally in…

But, more realistically, it helps kids stay out of trouble, because they know there's an increased probability that they will get caught.

If my father knew I'd stolen his car to go see a girlfriend at 1 AM on a school day, he would have completely flipped out.

He'd have stopped me. And in doing so, would have deprived me of one of the best nights of my life.

I won't question your parenting methods. No one should, unless they have children.

But what you've described sounds like a meager existence. I hope your children can escape their taskmaster.

More likely, they'll grow up shaped into whatever form you decided suits them. Hopefully you're a tasteful architect.

Just know that this kind of thing can have long-term trauma effects. I wish I could paste the conversation from a physicist friend. I asked her how she's been, and she said completely miserable. "What?" "Well... Don't worry, I'm less miserable now than I was before."

This was alarming. She's nearing the end of grad school, and by all accounts is a successful physicist at the start of her career. She's worked very hard for four years to get there. Miserable? Isn't this what she's worked so hard to attain?

Turns out, she's never wanted to be a physicist. Her father coerced her into thinking she wanted to be. And now he's still pushing her to go into academia by pressuring her to get a PhD. She says that getting a real job is all she's dreamed about for years.

She's one of the smartest people I know. She's a brilliant mathematician, far better than I could ever hope to be. How could someone so smart end up with such a miserable life?

Because her parents decided that would be best, of course. I'm sure they meant well.

As you chip away with hammer and chisel, try to use a light touch. Therapists can't always reverse the damage.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe private data like BSSIDs shouldn't be used for mapping purposes in the first place.

> Maybe private data like BSSIDs... Is it private when you're screaming it on the street corner for everyone to hear? If we're talking about vocal utterances, the law says "no". It's... disappointing that the addition of a computer to a activity makes people lose sight of the similarities between that activity and very similar ones that have long-settled legal treatment. Edit: To drive the point home: There are many…

> Is it private when you're screaming it on the street corner for everyone to hear?

Yes, it is, if the screaming is between you and another person and not addressed at the public.

> If we're talking about vocal utterances, the law says "no"

Actually the law says "yes". At least in all the countries in which secrecy of telecommunications laws are in place. The general outline has been laid out by the ITU and the paraphrased rule is, that it is strictly forbidden to listen to communications to which one is not the intended communications partner and the signal is not addressed at the public. It's debateable if a SSID beacon is a public broadcast or not. But at least from most user's point of view their intention is not broadcasting to the general public if they set up an encrypted 802.11 access point.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of the children? Either a location is enough for the police to search your place or it is not. Don't pull the kidnapped big eyed little girl card, please.

What are you talking about? The standards should definitely be lower for missing children. Finding your missing phone is a lot less important than finding a kidnapped girl. Are you really saying the police shouldn't have been allowed to do that search?

I'm saying that the same indicator ("location service claims this is the spot") should have the same result (probable cause?).

If crime1 w/ probable cause means you enter the building and crime2 w/ probable cause means you enter the building then there's no reason to bring up tiny girls or puppies.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#244
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Out of curiosity I just tried Find my iPhone on my own device which has been sitting in the same location in my house for about an hour completely untouched. Apple's interface shows my iPhone about a half mile away in a house I've never visited or been in before. There is a big circle around my device (which doesn't even include the actual location) but the actual dot is somewhere I've never been before…

Was the phone within the tinted radius? The dot doesn't represent your location; it represents the center of a circle containing your phone.

No, it wasn't.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#245
post #65
post #9

My money is on a wifi SSID that matches the one used by thieves or a heavily-trafficked location the victims all pass through. My company moved ~5 blocks and it really screwed up the map on my phone (which I use to get around the city) for several months. My company had left the network SSID the same in the old location, so that no one had to re-configure their wifi. Even with GPS on, my phone was always convinced it…

It seems much more likely that there is some bogus location data set somewhere that improperly links SIDS and GPS coordinates or filters fail and result some index into a GPS table that happens to correspond to this couple's home. If I were these two people, I'd contact the local police department every single time anyone shows up at their house and require that the PD fill out a report of some kind and keep it in a…

> If I were these two people, I'd contact the local police department every single time anyone shows up at their house and require that the PD fill out a report of some kind and keep it in a single case/incident/folder.

While I would want to do that, too, that's not how police departments work in Atlanta (or pretty much any urban area of the USA).

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? The standards should definitely be lower for missing children. Finding your missing phone is a lot less important than finding a kidnapped girl. Are you really saying the police shouldn't have been allowed to do that search?

I'm saying that the same indicator ("location service claims this is the spot") should have the same result (probable cause?). If crime1 w/ probable cause means you enter the building and crime2 w/ probable cause means you enter the building then there's no reason to bring up tiny girls or puppies.

Your argument works equally well against you. Most people agree the search is justified if it's a missing girl, therefore it should also be justified for any trivial crime as well.

But obviously there is a difference between trivial crimes and kidnappings. Inconveniencing a few people to save a life is acceptable. The expected utility is positive. It likely is not for more trivial crimes.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do parents track their children? Kids are tougher than parents credit them for. It's unfortunate that new technology will let parents hover forever. That's me. I "stalk" my children. Here's the long story of why. I live in a relatively safe area, the suburbs of Portland Oregon. There's a fair amount of petty property crime, which tends to be tolerated if not quite condoned. Fortunately the region has generally in…

But, more realistically, it helps kids stay out of trouble, because they know there's an increased probability that they will get caught. If my father knew I'd stolen his car to go see a girlfriend at 1 AM on a school day, he would have completely flipped out. He'd have stopped me. And in doing so, would have deprived me of one of the best nights of my life. I won't question your parenting methods. No one should, unl…

> I won't question your parenting methods...

Ok, cool!

> But what you've described sounds like a meager existence. I hope your children can escape their taskmaster... More likely, they'll grow up shaped into whatever form you decided suits them... Therapists can't always reverse the damage.

Uhhhm...

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#248
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, more realistically, it helps kids stay out of trouble, because they know there's an increased probability that they will get caught. If my father knew I'd stolen his car to go see a girlfriend at 1 AM on a school day, he would have completely flipped out. He'd have stopped me. And in doing so, would have deprived me of one of the best nights of my life. I won't question your parenting methods. No one should, unl…

> I won't question your parenting methods... Ok, cool! > But what you've described sounds like a meager existence. I hope your children can escape their taskmaster... More likely, they'll grow up shaped into whatever form you decided suits them... Therapists can't always reverse the damage. Uhhhm...

It's not necessarily wrong to do any of that.

It had a profoundly bad outcome for me, but maybe that's a one-off. It's arguable whether it had a bad outcome for my physicist friend. After all, she is a successful physicist.

This was intended to highlight some things that may not be immediately obvious. Life is counterintuitive.

It is very easy to do terrible things by accident. Morals are subjective. Is it morally wrong to declaw a cat? Some are horrified and compare it to clipping off a finger. Others think it's good for the cat and perfectly normal.

If I sat here and said "What you're doing is wrong; stop this," what good would it do? Absolutely nothing.

Sharing data is a little different. No one has perfect information. They have to choose to do something, and I respect that. Highlighting unintended consequences of a decision isn't quite the same as judging it.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#249
post #184
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"might be" absolutely constitutes probable cause.

I don't know. Out of curiosity I just tried Find my iPhone on my own device which has been sitting in the same location in my house for about an hour completely untouched. Apple's interface shows my iPhone about a half mile away in a house I've never visited or been in before. There is a big circle around my device (which doesn't even include the actual location) but the actual dot is somewhere I've never been before…

I am impressed that you were able to draw such a broad conclusion from a single experiment!

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#250
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stories like this further my conviction to simply never answer the door if it's a police officer unless they specify having a warrant. They can't detain you if you don't answer, and chances are the officer will escalate the situation on his own if he wants a reason to detain you. There is nothing to gain and everything to lose.

I've answered the door to police, they were there to return property of mine that I had no idea was missing. It took some work on their end to find me too.

I am sure they have your phone number too. They are welcome to call me, though I wouldn't necessarily answer any questions.
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