I'm a Clojure fan, but I always have this niggling concern in the back of my mind that Oracle is going to do something catastrophic and fracturing to the JVM and Java.
Why we choose Java instead of a polyglot stack
121–130 of 155 posts
Re: Why we choose Java instead of a polyglot stack
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
The blog post mentioned "modern java frameworks", can you specify which ones you're using?
Is there a guide to modern java frameworks and their use? I left java a while back when "EE" was full of shit.
Parallel Universe made a comprehensive 3-part blog post to modern Java. They cover language features like lambdas, as well as notable libraries for build, deployment, monitoring, and web development.
Re: Why we choose Java instead of a polyglot stack
#123To me it's not so much Java that's the problem, it's the kind of programmer it seems to foster. The language itself is simple enough, so people invent all kinds of architectural bullshit and overengineer everything to hell to appear smart. As a result you get code that replaces compile time errors with run-time errors, and it's fucking impossible to debug or understand because everything needs three dozen libraries and five hundred classes before you can even start doing anything worthwhile.
This is not Java's fault, per se. You can write simple, performant, sane code in it. It's just that 95% of people choose not to.
I have a feeling that this is part of the reason why Go is gaining popularity (even though I dislike Go as well, for different reasons): much of this garbage (such as DI frameworks, AOP/runtime bytecode modification out the wazoo) are either impossible or deliberately inconvenient there, and writing overly complicated code is socially unacceptable.
Re: Why we choose Java instead of a polyglot stack
#124So, Java guys, what do you recommend if someone wants to have a Rails-like experience where programmer time is more valuable than 'web scale' performance? Say, also that I don't want to have to pay oodles of money for some server with a terabyte of memory to hold the application. Honest question - I haven't kept up with what's happening in Java land, and am curious what you'd recommend for that kind of side-project t…
I would recommend to see https://www.youtube.com/user/bienadam
Very elegant introduction to Java Land, it uses Java EE 7 and by default two servers Payara or Wildfly(around 100MB).
Re: Why we choose Java instead of a polyglot stack
#125I also advocate for Java, but mostly because I invested in companies that manufacture RAM.
RAM is cheap, but developers time is expensive.
Re: Why we choose Java instead of a polyglot stack
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
the 90s called and they want their comment back
Tell that to the 4.5GB of RAM my Eclipse instance is sucking down at the moment.
While it's possible you have discovered some exciting new problem, Eclipse is likely more your problem than the JVM. I've never increased the heap size of IntelliJ from its default size of 750M except when dealing with extraordinarily large Scala projects. I've had Sublime Text use more RAM than that with some plugins.
Re: Why we choose Java instead of a polyglot stack
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You have to relearn how a function looks like in the first place. Return types are at the end, parameter types are after the parameter name separated by a colon. baroque syntax? Like these: - https://swift.org/getting-started - https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/functions.html - https://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#functions - https://kotlinlang.org/docs/reference/functions.html Sorry but you pretty much say clojur…
By baroque I mean it is overly complicated. Clojure syntax or LISP syntax for that matter is everything bot overly complicated. > People won't learn this. Say that to Uncle Bob or the guys who maintain ClojureScript, Cursive (JetBrains based Clojure IDE) or Om which is a port of React not to mention Apache Storm which was written in Clojure.
Don't get me wrong I still think Clojure has it's place, but saying others are overly complicated when talking about Clojure is somehow awful. Lisp is near dead, without Clojure lisp would only be used to train how to implement parsers, compilers, academic stuff.
Yeah there are a few people who know lisp, you also forgotten about Walmart, which is a lisp user, however the majority of people in functional languages still won't learn Clojure.
But still don't care about, use the tool/language you are familiar with, especially if you could use it in your company. I also see a lot of pressure against scala, and I'm a scala user, but I just don't care.
Re: Why we choose Java instead of a polyglot stack
#128I work at HubSpot, and was among the initially skeptical from having had bad experiences in Java in the distant past and spent more time in Ruby in the years prior which I mostly enjoyed. The Java ecosystem truly saved itself from its own enterprise madness. Libraries and frameworks today look nothing like they did in the past. I think that is somewhat due to language features (annotations, lambdas, etc) but also due…
HubSpot doesn't have language wars, only IDE wars ;)
And hopefully IntelliJ wins hands down :)
Re: Why we choose Java instead of a polyglot stack
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there a guide to modern java frameworks and their use? I left java a while back when "EE" was full of shit.
This is a good place to start: https://github.com/cxxr/better-java
So, is the idea to avoid ORM, JSF, JavaBeans, CDI Beans and all JavaEE in general?
How is web application development done? I guess the back-end is made in Java with an API, and another language is used for the front-end.
Re: Why we choose Java instead of a polyglot stack
#130Developers use the right tool for the job.
Java / JVM is the right tool for some jobs, and not the right tool for many others.
It's definitely not an essential for core services and web applications, but is a valid option.