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Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

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Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe private data like BSSIDs shouldn't be used for mapping purposes in the first place.

> Maybe private data like BSSIDs... Is it private when you're screaming it on the street corner for everyone to hear? If we're talking about vocal utterances, the law says "no". It's... disappointing that the addition of a computer to a activity makes people lose sight of the similarities between that activity and very similar ones that have long-settled legal treatment. Edit: To drive the point home: There are many…

It's even more unfortunate that the committees designing these protocols don't think this way. People with an identifier number tattooed on their arm don't walk around continually reciting it. In fact, they generally wear long sleeves.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#152

What's sad is how the local police seem to have some sort of learning disability or amnesia about this problem. They showed up there repeatedly and harassed the occupants.

Disclaimer: I agree with the intent of your comment but, as this is the second time I've seen this comment in this thread, I'll bite and play devil's advocate. Additionally, I have absolutely no knowledge of dispatch or any other law enforcement software. Where would the knowledge of this phenomena be stored? Does the dispatch software have a notes field? If so, is it procedure to put that sort of information in plac…

> Where would the knowledge of this phenomena be stored?

Brian Krebs appears to have a local police force that knows how to perform this witchcraft: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/03/the-world-has-no-room-for... :) Search for the 'graph that starts: "I informed the responding officers that this was a hoax" and read through the one that starts: "One of the officers asked if it was okay to enter my house, and I said sure."

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe private data like BSSIDs... Is it private when you're screaming it on the street corner for everyone to hear? If we're talking about vocal utterances, the law says "no". It's... disappointing that the addition of a computer to a activity makes people lose sight of the similarities between that activity and very similar ones that have long-settled legal treatment. Edit: To drive the point home: There are many…

It's even more unfortunate that the committees designing these protocols don't think this way. People with an identifier number tattooed on their arm don't walk around continually reciting it. In fact, they generally wear long sleeves.

That's the most unexpected and off-the-wall Godwin I've ever seen.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

---> It's bullshit that police are coming to the door and dragging them outside while trying to determine if a search warrant is in order. I think this is the biggest issue! Their rights where violated.

What rights are you referring to? The police seem to have done everything correctly. These were individuals who were being detained pursuant to an investigation of an ongoing crime. The police did not search the inside of the house without a warrant - though, it's unclear why not - if they had strong belief that there was a crime in progress, they had every legal right to do so. I guess the only thing in question is…

Software that puts a blinking dot on a map should not be considered probable cause.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes it will hold up in court. Police don't let suspects out of detention just because they complain they have to pee. High-tech state-of-the-art tracking technology from Google and Apple indicates that these people are somehow involved in the disappearance of a missing person. How dumb would the officer look if he let a suspect destroy evidence, escape, or otherwise pull something on the claim that they have to pee?

> How dumb would the officer look if he let a suspect destroy evidence, escape, or otherwise pull something on the claim that they have to pee? There's a lot of ways in which the American system is deliberately set up to let some of the guilty go free and requires a certain degree of responsibility for those detained, charged, or imprisoned in order to preserve a set of rights that are important related to basic huma…

what the hell are you talking about?

no one cares how you think the laws should be. The laws are the way they are. The police can detain you if they have reasonable suspicion to believe you are involved in a crime in any way

this was 100% legal according to the laws. no one cares what your fantasy interpretation is

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe private data like BSSIDs... Is it private when you're screaming it on the street corner for everyone to hear? If we're talking about vocal utterances, the law says "no". It's... disappointing that the addition of a computer to a activity makes people lose sight of the similarities between that activity and very similar ones that have long-settled legal treatment. Edit: To drive the point home: There are many…

It's even more unfortunate that the committees designing these protocols don't think this way. People with an identifier number tattooed on their arm don't walk around continually reciting it. In fact, they generally wear long sleeves.

> It's even more unfortunate that the committees designing these protocols don't think this way.

So. How would you design a system to permit associated or unassociated stations to passively determine whether or not they were in range of a given AP? Remember that unassociated stations may never have ever interacted with the AP in question before this moment.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#157

I had a similar experience about a month ago, when I thought I lost my iPhone 5s. Logged onto "Find my iPhone" app and it told me it was about 1km away from my house. I thought I must've dropped it somewhere nearby. So I got the address from Apple Map, drove there and knocked on the door to greet a rather defensive (obviously) lady who, of course, denied ever picking up an iphone that day. I snooped around to see if…

Find My Iphone has a ring option. Always try that first

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes it will hold up in court. Police don't let suspects out of detention just because they complain they have to pee. High-tech state-of-the-art tracking technology from Google and Apple indicates that these people are somehow involved in the disappearance of a missing person. How dumb would the officer look if he let a suspect destroy evidence, escape, or otherwise pull something on the claim that they have to pee?

> High-tech state-of-the-art tracking technology from Google and Apple indicates that these people are somehow involved in the disappearance of a missing person. It is rather odd that you insist on this when you know it to be false. The technology is not state-of-the art because it is missing the crucial feature of telling you how confident it is in its assessment. These people were clearly not involved and the track…

as far as the courts, cops, prosecutors, and juries are concerned... this is state of the art tracking technology and more than enough reason to search someone's house. This would be enough for a probable cause for a search if the cops decided they wanted one. The cops were being nice in this case because it seems they believed the couple's story and were just being diligent in detaining them for awhile

It WAY passes the bar for reasonable suspicion for detention which is a very, very low bar. A hunch is enough for reasonable suspicion. Having sophisticated tracking tech point to someone is way more than enough

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#159
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that the router is currently broadcasting a BSSID that exists elsewhere. The problem is that a geo-wifi database contains an association between their address and a BSSID. They can change the router, and eventually the problem should sort itself out (if it is indeed their router and not a neighbor's that is the issue), but it's going to take until the old record ages out of the database for it to h…

The one thing people seem to be glossing over is, why or how do all these lost phones and people share the same geographic element between them?

Because they all use the same third-party database. Probably Skyhook or something similar.

Re: Why do people keep coming to this couple’s home looking for lost phones?

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would not the location tracking telling them the girls phone was inside the house be probable cause? Seems more reliable than a dog alerting on a car.

Whoever said that the phone location tracking was anywhere near this level of reliable? IMHO, it's really only good as a sort of hint on where your phone _might_ be.

You don't need a certain conviction for a search warrant, you need probable cause.
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