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Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

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Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#391

Post by geebee »

ebola1717 wrote: post #275
devalier wrote: post #128

Computer programming is one of the most cognitively demanding professions in existence. Ability to program correlates pretty highly with cognitive test scores, such as the SAT Math. If you look at the top scorers on such tests in America, only about 1% are black. The ratio of black engineers in Silicon Valley matches what you would expect based on the test scores. To see it visually, this is the bell curve based on m…

Wow, I'm sorry, but programming is not that demanding. Theoretical CS work can be, but the typical programmer is working on maintaining a crud app, especially as a junior developer.

Is it just me? I find it unbelievably demanding. I think writing even relatively simple web apps almost always turns into something mind numbingly difficult. The amount of extremely dense material you have to read and ingest, the number of things you have to stitch together, all of which claim to be easy but in fact require deeper understanding because they never quite do what you need them to, the abstraction of what you have to understand… and then, on top of it, almost nothing is greenfield, so you have to go down a really deep and dark rabbit hole of someone else's highly intricate logic.

What can I say? I consider it to be one of the hardest things I've done. I have no idea how people find it easy, but clearly some do.

A lot of the horrendous complexity in our field comes from churn. But hey whatever the vector, it is (and of course this is just my opinion) hellaciously demanding.

Just a quick note, my post here is intended as a narrow response to the specific claim that programming is not demanding, not the general comment tree.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#392

Post by hobs »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #383
blueatlas wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really a problem specifically with Howard, or more a problem with CS curriculum in general? I ask this leaving the likes of CMU, Stanford, MIT, out of the equation - I'm thinking more about the "non-elite" CS programs, of which there are many, many more. I am mentoring a CS student at another university and have had some challenges bringing this student along because the fundamentals are just not being taught…

I cannot speak for CS, but for chemistry I would not hire anyone who did not graduate from a top-20 program. At any other college, both theory and practice are taught with insufficient depth and rigour - in essence everyone who joins one of those programs either is a medical school aspirant or just there for the "college". CS may be different.

That sounds like the same technique an HR person would use for hiring, not someone looking for skill in an individual.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#393

Post by kenjackson »

dingbat wrote: post #373
ebfe wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first study confounds the issues of race and class. Emily is not the white equivalent to Lakisha, Brandi is.

further complicated by the tendency towards aspirational naming, as over time formerly upscale names like Emily / Alexandra / Madison etc become associated with low-end socioeconomics due to overexposure. however, you'd have to be willfully ignorant to deny the perceptual gap between high-end/low-end Emily/Amber vs. Lakisha

So what is a "high-end" black name?

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#394

Post by [deleted] »

noir_lord wrote: post #366
crpatino wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, because you eat tacos, you understand me? Let's try, please let me know when you know at least half of this kind of tacos (the animal is beef unless otherwise specified) of your list. Maybe we can have an interesting conversation then: 1. Sesos (boiled brains). 2. Lengua (boiled tongue). 3. Tripas (deep fried pork intestine). 4. Moronga(fried pork blood). 5. Ojo (boiled eyeballs). 6. Higado (fried liver). 7. Tuet…

I'm in the UK, I've eaten most of those but not in taco's 2) I quite like a tongue sandwich. 3) Tripe is not my cup of tea but I've had it 4) Fried pork blood, we have a thing here called black pudding (it's congealed blood soaked in oats, then fried, it's damn good and apparenly good for you). 6) Lots of times, don't see it much now, my nan lived on it 7) Used in stocks 10) Pork Scratchings are huge here also damn g…

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#395

Post by thegayngler »

I'm a gay black guy who went to SMU via scholarship and majored in finance. Coding is my hobby. The New York Times hired me to write code for them. I worked there 2.5 years. We are in the tech already. Silicone Valley needs to pick those up who are already here. Some of us are more than willing and capable to work with Silicone Valley.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#396

Post by JustSomeNobody »

igonvalue wrote: post #281

The clickbait article headline is "Why Doesn’t Silicon Valley Hire Black Coders?" The answer is buried three quarters of the way into the article: > When they started interviewing seniors, companies found — as Pratt did at Howard — that many were underprepared. They hadn’t been exposed to programming before college and had gaps in their college classes. So why isn't the article titled, "Why Aren't Enough Black Coders…

Are they less prepared than people graduating from the hacker schools (or whatever they're called) that are popping up guaranteeing jobs?

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#397

Post by Joof »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #383
blueatlas wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really a problem specifically with Howard, or more a problem with CS curriculum in general? I ask this leaving the likes of CMU, Stanford, MIT, out of the equation - I'm thinking more about the "non-elite" CS programs, of which there are many, many more. I am mentoring a CS student at another university and have had some challenges bringing this student along because the fundamentals are just not being taught…

I cannot speak for CS, but for chemistry I would not hire anyone who did not graduate from a top-20 program. At any other college, both theory and practice are taught with insufficient depth and rigour - in essence everyone who joins one of those programs either is a medical school aspirant or just there for the "college". CS may be different.

I can't speak for chemistry, but this is a horrificly shitty thing. There are many factors influencing what schools a student chooses to attend. Finances being an important one.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#398

Post by davidf18 »

I started programming at a top computing university where my father was on the faculty while still in high school. I was working with other high school students and college students who were very passionate about programming and computer hardware. I remember working 80 hour work weeks during summers and breaks learning an enormous amount from fellow students as well as faculty and researchers.

Generally, if one wants to get into computing in a highly competitive environment, they should attend a top computing university. Fortunately there are top schools that are public as well as private.

I rarely see blacks (or Hispanics) at computer Meetups in NYC. For that matter, at many computer Meetups, there aren't so many women either.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#399

Post by gohrt »

kenjackson wrote: post #393
dingbat wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

further complicated by the tendency towards aspirational naming, as over time formerly upscale names like Emily / Alexandra / Madison etc become associated with low-end socioeconomics due to overexposure. however, you'd have to be willfully ignorant to deny the perceptual gap between high-end/low-end Emily/Amber vs. Lakisha

So what is a "high-end" black name?

The richest black Americans are named:

Oprah, Michael, Tiger, Sean, Robert, Mariah, Earvin, Jay, Bill, Sheila, Tyler, Shaquille, Dr, Master, Berry, Russell, Quintin, Beyonce, Prince.

The richest Americans are named:

Bill, Warren, Larry, Jeff, Charles, David, Mark, Michael, Jim, Larry, Sergey (immigrant, didn't change name), Alice (inherited), S. Robson (inherited) Christy (inherited), Sheldon, George, Phil, Forrest, Jacqueline, John, Steve, Carl.

Bill and Michael are on both those lists, but you would not say they are "black" names.

The thing is, there aren't a large group of upper class black people with different names from upper class white people, so you don't have an image in your mind of high-end black names. The rich and famous black people you know have either normal "white" names or very rare names (Beyonce, Prince, Tiger). High-end names default to looking white, since white is "normal" in USA.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#400

Post by crpatino »

noir_lord wrote: post #366
crpatino wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, because you eat tacos, you understand me? Let's try, please let me know when you know at least half of this kind of tacos (the animal is beef unless otherwise specified) of your list. Maybe we can have an interesting conversation then: 1. Sesos (boiled brains). 2. Lengua (boiled tongue). 3. Tripas (deep fried pork intestine). 4. Moronga(fried pork blood). 5. Ojo (boiled eyeballs). 6. Higado (fried liver). 7. Tuet…

I'm in the UK, I've eaten most of those but not in taco's 2) I quite like a tongue sandwich. 3) Tripe is not my cup of tea but I've had it 4) Fried pork blood, we have a thing here called black pudding (it's congealed blood soaked in oats, then fried, it's damn good and apparenly good for you). 6) Lots of times, don't see it much now, my nan lived on it 7) Used in stocks 10) Pork Scratchings are huge here also damn g…

Right, I forgot most European cuisines do make use of the whole animal. I stand corrected.

I kind of dislike blood (you have to eat it quickly, or the flavor deteriorates in your very plate before you notice), but otherwise everything that runs, swims or flies is game ;)

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