Live data from Hacker News

How we fought bad ads in 2015

googleblog.blogspot.com

51–60 of 136 posts

Re: How we fought bad ads in 2015

#51
post #14

How I fought bad ads in 2016 (in order of impact on usability/performance): http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ (transparent and no overhead, works on Android too!) https://www.eff.org/privacybadger https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock (a handful of websites will detect it - you can then switch to visual blocking for that domain to get around it, for FF: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/ublock-origin... ) ht…

Agreed, all ads are bad. And let's call the advertising business model what it is: a get rich quick scheme. Undercut the straight up competitors that charge for their product by fooling consumers into thinking you're offering what the other guy is offering, but for free. Come on, who could turn down that? Or make something "valuable" that no one is willing to pay for (WTF?), so again make it appear free. Only the tru…

This is not quite as straightforward, though. One advantage of our ad supported internet is that quality of access to ad-supported services varies very little with one's wealth. A teenager in Mexico (or India, or... you get the idea) with a low end smartphone, coffee shop wi-fi and no credit card gets the exact same Google, Youtube and Facebook services than a Silicon Valley VC with a Mac Book Pro and a huge bank account.

Now, I am not saying I like the surveillance economy, and I don't, by any means, enjoy ads. I also think we are risking a lot by the erosion of privacy as a value in our societies in the name of ad targeting. But I thought I'd point out there are social ills associated with pay services as well.

Freemium is another option, but it quickly becomes about finding a balance between providing a good enough free service that people want to use and thus promote it, and yet crappy enough that enough will upgrade to the pay version.

Note: My paycheck or the future of my current workplace does not depend on ads ;)

Re: How we fought bad ads in 2015

#52

Google could have fought bad ads in 2015 by not serving up such manipulative 20th century dreck in the first place.

I know very little of how the ad business work, but everything on that blog seemed like "after the fact". Don't they look at the ad first then and approve it?

They make it sound like they maybe run the ad through some automated tests and then just send it out.

A decent human approver of ads would never approve an ad that looks like a big green button that says "Download now".

Re: How we fought bad ads in 2015

#53

Go to Google right now and search for "passport renew" I see twelve sites which offer the service with no affiliation. All they do is ask for sensitive personal information, charge you an additional fee (on top of the passport fee) and file on your behalf. Unfortunately I've had friends & family fall for this and similar scams (see also "birth certificate copy" "criminal record" "arrest record" "US travel authorisati…

That is pretty terrible. When I tried (http://imgur.com/KCpdOFg), there was a legit content snippet from USPS (with graphic) right before the fold, but the rest of the page was ads. The ads should at least be differentiated more from actual search results; the small "Ad" badge is low contrast and easy to overlook.

Re: How we fought bad ads in 2015

#54

> With powerful new protections, we disabled more than 10,000 sites offering unwanted software, and reduced unwanted downloads via Google ads by more than 99 percent. Yet when I search for "download Firefox", the thing I see is malvertising. https://i.imgur.com/IRQ85fx.png

You can't just call it "malvertising" when it's just not what you wanted... I just went and downloaded the app from that add and compared the checksum against the APK on my phone of the same version (version 42.0.2, downloaded from Google Play) They both match. (Both SHA256 checksums are D0B5A524ABFD5AD9D73DFF4DA398423CB7B337797FBA0C039F3A44CAE259B4B0, if you want to verify it from me as well) So that site is providi…

I have to say, props for doing your homework. At first glance, however, you have to admit that "HTZapps" seems a bit dodgy.

Re: How we fought bad ads in 2015

#55
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just call it "malvertising" when it's just not what you wanted... I just went and downloaded the app from that add and compared the checksum against the APK on my phone of the same version (version 42.0.2, downloaded from Google Play) They both match. (Both SHA256 checksums are D0B5A524ABFD5AD9D73DFF4DA398423CB7B337797FBA0C039F3A44CAE259B4B0, if you want to verify it from me as well) So that site is providi…

I have to say, props for doing your homework. At first glance, however, you have to admit that "HTZapps" seems a bit dodgy.

Why? It's no more dodgy than "FDroid"...

Their home page looks like what i'd expect an app store's home page to look like, full of apps. There's not even any ads on the home page!

And besides, i don't care what it looks like "at first glance". if you are going to call out someone's website as "malware" then you'd better do your damn homework first.

Re: How we fought bad ads in 2015

#56

>When ads are good, they connect you to products or services you’re interested in and make it easier to get stuff you want. Dear marketing departments, I do not want relevant ads. I don't like unknown third parties influencing my decisions. If I must see ads, I'd rather see ads for tampons and sports cars and business real estate, because I'm not going to buy those things, so you're not manipulating me. Please stop p…

You think all ads are irrelevant to you? Do you not use goods and services to raise your quality of life? Don't tell me "I just google for something if I want to consume it," because truly innovative products and services are outside the realm of general imagination, that's what makes them innovative. And all the great products and services you learned about from word of mouth? Guess how your friends heard about them…

Actually, yes, all ads are irrelevant to me. I have never purchased an item from an ad, and cut out ads form my life as much as possible. I run multiple layers of software to block advertising on all my devices, refuse to use services/apps that force one to use ads, and will leave a restaurant/airport lounge/other public area if they play content with advertising. I won't read print magazines because they have advertisements.

There is nothing an advertiser could do to convince me to listen to, read, or watch their ad. The hidden/in context ads are somewhat unavoidable (eg ads for YC on HN), but I write code to filter out such things when I see patterns. I'm working on releasing an extension that subs out all brand names on the web.

And yet, somehow, I still manage to live a modern life of plenty. If I need something, I'll look for it. In fact, I find that this leads me to higher quality and more innovative products that better fit my needs - if a service spreads through advertising, that's very good evidence that it's both shitty and not targeted at me. If your memory is polluted by advertising, you'll tend to reach for inferior products first. Advertising has negative value for the individual and the ecosystem, because companies compete on marketing and not on product.

Re: How we fought bad ads in 2015

#57

For me, they did not, as they introduced the video ads in my region. These ads push unrelated content in an unwanted way by aggressively interrupting the normal flow. This is not acceptable - Internet is not a TV. I think that the video ads are a huge detachment from the initial way Google handled the ads.

Video ads are what made me install AdBlock back. They totally destroy normal use flow and actually make YouTube less useful (unsuitable for playing music in the background, especially at a home party).

Re: How we fought bad ads in 2015

#58
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My post keeps fluctuating too, it's a very controversial subject. Although I wish the downvoters would also leave a reply - it's the Internet, have your say.

The thing is though: What can they reply with? "Do you feel you deserve the content for free?" is the only argument I ever hear, and that is so old and tired, it's not funny. I'd be interested in hearing/discussing a solid pro-ad argument, but I've yet to find one.

Here is one - the alternative to ads everyone proposes is people pay for their content directly. Except there are catastrophic barriers to entry for such a business model:

* You need to bind real world money to online browsing, somehow. This means you need some kind of blunt "want to see the content? Pay X money, here are paypal and CC info links".

* People who do not have access to these tools - there is still a sizable chunk of America without a bank account, and often without access to credit cards - are thus cutoff from most web services.

* The Internet was predominantly built on principles of no barrier information exchange. Putting a paywall up is implicitly putting up a barrier to knowledge, which has deeper effects than just bottom lines on culture.

I would absolutely a lot of sites currently ignoring monetiziation and just using ads as a surrogate are making a mistake. I also recognize advertising is predatory and while I am arguing ads open up the Internet to the poor advertising also disproportionately harms the poor by manipulating them into making superfluous purchases they cannot afford.

But I also cannot condone a paywalled experience where you need to pay $3 to watch youtube, or $2 a month for Facebook, or $1 a month to use Twitter. Rent seeking is one of the great threats to civilization in our current era and the fundamental is that all these websites build value off of their exclusivity guaranteed by the state, thus making them the ultimate renteers of the services they offer because by definition nobody else can compete with them at being youtube or facebook or twitter - you can just make alternative products meant to fill the same niche. Its like using hand soap as a substitute for bar soap because someone owns the rights to physical bars of soap. It can do the same job but its not the same product.

Which is why I am extremely wary of pushing a paywalled Internet as a solution.

Now, there are absolutely alternatives to both models - Wikipedia demonstrates an annual fundraiser model akin to Kickstater or Patreon class crowdfunding to keep things running without ads or paywalls - but at the same time there are tons of comments about how Wikipedia should use ads so people don't have to feel guilty about not contributing when they don't have the money to do so while Wikimedia runs the large banner ads in December. Its the same psychological manipulation as ads, except possibly more benign since its from the project itself.

In a perfect world, all our software endeavors would be paid for before we even start writing them so that the code could be free and the servers run forever without worrying about money, but that model doesn't align with western shareholder-value driven markets at all. The whole point is to make something at fixed cost and extract potentially endless revenue from the monopoly IP gives you. For better or worse, that is how this economy is operating now.

Re: How we fought bad ads in 2015

#59

When ads are good, they connect you to products or services you’re interested in and make it easier to get stuff you want. They don't make anything easier. If I want something, I will get it, otherwise it's just annoying. It's great that they are working to make ads safer (which is obviously in their interest as well), but they have already lost me (and I guess many others). Even AdSense ads are obnoxious these days…

There is value in advertising: as an information source and a mechanism to establish trust. The former value has been diminished by the internet (which some people call the information age). Advertising is still valuable for establishing trust between the two unknown parties though. Ads in Google work partly because of Google the brand name. Ads on Reddit r/HateSomething will not because, well, you know why. So it's…

My trust in a product and company is usually inversely proportional to the amount of ads they run. The more one is aggressive with their ads, the less I trust them.

Re: How we fought bad ads in 2015

#60

> With powerful new protections, we disabled more than 10,000 sites offering unwanted software, and reduced unwanted downloads via Google ads by more than 99 percent. Yet when I search for "download Firefox", the thing I see is malvertising. https://i.imgur.com/IRQ85fx.png

You can't just call it "malvertising" when it's just not what you wanted... I just went and downloaded the app from that add and compared the checksum against the APK on my phone of the same version (version 42.0.2, downloaded from Google Play) They both match. (Both SHA256 checksums are D0B5A524ABFD5AD9D73DFF4DA398423CB7B337797FBA0C039F3A44CAE259B4B0, if you want to verify it from me as well) So that site is providi…

> You can't just call it "malvertising" when it's just not what you wanted...

It's an advertisement which seeks to get users to download software from an unofficial source. The site does not provide links to the official sources.

The advertiser has paid money to get users to go to their site instead of the official source. The advertiser seeks to misdirect users into visiting their site (which is loaded with ads) instead of the official one. I consider this misdirection to be malicious.

Post reply on HN