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As Angel Investors Pull Back, Valuations Take a Hit

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Re: As Angel Investors Pull Back, Valuations Take a Hit

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A much better take to look at that data is this: http://www.vox.com/2015/1/22/7871947/oxfam-wealth-statistic It's the same as to compare someone on absolute salary of $100k in Silicon Valley vs $50k in Estonia, forgetting that the latter can provide a luxurious lifestyle with tons of money to spend, while former can mean being barely break-even.

Median income in San Jose is $80k, so 50% of all households make less than that. $100k does not mean you're barely capable of breaking even. For any reasonable amount of income, it is possible to spend in such a way that you're barely breaking even, of course. But this whole meme of six figures is hard to keep afloat with is the worst kind of cringe-worthy "Oh poor well-paid me." My wife works at Habitat for Humanity…

Median income does not mean what you think it means.

There are basically 4 socioeconomic classes in modern society: the disposessed, the working poor, the middle class and the wealthy class. You can split hairs and make different cuts, but if you follow this model.

* The disposessed is the people that fell through the cracks. They are struggling to survive usually for multiple issues that are holding them back, even if they have incomes. In a healthy society they should be a small minority.

* The working poor is the people that manage to make ends meet, but are one unexpected big expense away from financial disaster. Unlike the dispossesed their main problem is that the jobs they are qualified to hold do not pay enough, so they may do everything right and still land in trouble.

* The middle class is people that is financially relaxed, even if not rich. They can afford luxuries, and are the prefered target market for many business both because there are many of them and because they have disposable incomes.

* The wealthy run the show. They are not relevant to this dicussion.

The point about "median income" rethoric is that Americans assume the middle class is always 50% or more of the population. So, by definition, median income == middle class. This is not the standard way of things around the world or through American history. Instead, there was an historic anomaly after WWII, when all the other industrial economies were blown up during the war and Americans enjoyed the advantage of being isolated enough to keep their infrastructure mostly intact. Every Risk player knows how this go.

This allowed the American economy to grow faster than population during the second half of 20th century, so most people could aspire to join the middle class, and the upper tiers of middle class could aspire to join the whealty class.

Arguably, the oversupply of money in the Bay Area is reverting this trend. This is what happened to Spain in the 17th and 18th century. The country itself got rich because of all the resources they extracted from their colonies in the Americas, but the rest of their economy did not grow as fast.

The result is that everyone that was not connected to the gravy train from overseas was, in effect, poor... even if they had enough money on their pockets to qualify as well to do in places like Central Europe that did not have colonies of their own. The well-off German farmer had access to cheap food, shelter, craft goods and the occasional specialized service that were simply not available to the average Spaniard lackey, because those last were priced out of the market by the soldiers and the customs officers.

Now the colonies are in the cloud, and software developers are the workers that help bring the value produced there into the realm of physical reality.

Re: As Angel Investors Pull Back, Valuations Take a Hit

#42
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A much better take to look at that data is this: http://www.vox.com/2015/1/22/7871947/oxfam-wealth-statistic It's the same as to compare someone on absolute salary of $100k in Silicon Valley vs $50k in Estonia, forgetting that the latter can provide a luxurious lifestyle with tons of money to spend, while former can mean being barely break-even.

With the difference that $100k is easily reachable in Silicon Valley for engineering positions even before reaching senior levels. Here in Tallinn, not so much.

Was going to say that in Baltics 50k a year is not a salary that an average engineer can aspire to. It is more than the premier makes..

Additional data point: UBNT is paying 36k in Riga which is an outlier at the top. I think most positions with a few years of experience are around 25k in Riga and starting salaries are around 12k.

Re: As Angel Investors Pull Back, Valuations Take a Hit

#43
I kinda side with Ron Conway on valuations. His take that valuations are not that important and company's success is mostly binary seems like common sense. Never understood the haggling that goes on over a few million when the exit could potentially be counted in the billions.

Here is a link -- http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2010/10/18/ron-conways-b...

Re: As Angel Investors Pull Back, Valuations Take a Hit

#44
As many have mentioned: the big wildcard here is how economically incestuous the startup world is. How many smaller startups are dependent on trickle-down from the unicorns?

If the answer is "not too many" then it will not affect the other 99% of bootstrapped or less lavishly funded startups. If the answer is "a lot" it will be rough and have cascading follow-on effects.

A major driver of the 2000 bubble was startups paying startups to advertise, market, or help build their startups. It was a classic bubble: an unintentional "emergent" pyramid scheme.

Re: As Angel Investors Pull Back, Valuations Take a Hit

#45
post #27

Whenever I see articles about how easily the investment money flows or had flowed all I can think of, from a purely self-centered point of view, is "what kind of loser am I that I have never been able to raise a single round?" Seriously, my ideas aren't objectively stupider than the ones I see funded. Even in this article, I mean, home eye exams? Did I read that right? How about a startup that will come to your house…

It took me a long time to figure this out, because no one tells you, but it's actually very simple. There are two ways people raise money in Silicon Valley:

1. Traction (rapid week-over-week growth, significant press)

2. Reputation (elite background, connections)

It's very easy to get some initial traction for these local services businesses, so investors fall for them easily. They lose money on every transaction but will make it up in volume ala Kozmo.com, Pink Dot, etc.

Despite the fairytales, no one actually invests in technology startups based on their products in Silicon Valley. Really, no one.

Oculus VR is a great example of the kind of business that investors had no interest in. They reluctantly jumped on the bandwagon very late, and only after it had lots of traction. Very few investors were interested in SpaceX or Tesla. That's how bad Silicon valley investors are at what they do. It's an industry ripe for disruption (see: YC).

Re: As Angel Investors Pull Back, Valuations Take a Hit

#46

I kinda side with Ron Conway on valuations. His take that valuations are not that important and company's success is mostly binary seems like common sense. Never understood the haggling that goes on over a few million when the exit could potentially be counted in the billions. Here is a link -- http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2010/10/18/ron-conways-b...

This is right to some extent. A valuation is not money-- it's basically a fictitious number that the company and its investors come up with to make the percentages work to everyone's satisfaction for a round.

The problem is that it's also a minimum bar to be cleared later, and if that minimum bar is not cleared it means you're in down round territory. It also in many cases sets a bar for a minimum exit for anyone but the preferred shareholders to get much of anything.

A down round is not necessarily death but it very negatively impacts founders, employees, and anyone else who holds common stock or options on common stock. This in turn can kill a company not through cash flow failure but by nuking morale and causing employees to leave (as well as demoralizing the founders).

I've thought for quite some time that these really high valuations are actually a trap for founders. A lot of founders have sought them for IMHO ego-driven reasons, but in the end they'll be the ones getting diluted badly in a down round.

I mean... I'm not a finance geek but it's always seemed to me that founder (and employee and also possibly seed investor) interests are maximized by maintaining a reasonable valuation. With a reasonable valuation the risk of a down-round is minimized and if there is a sale it's much more likely that the sale/exit amount will clear the liquidation preference bar and something will cascade down to the common shareholders. But what do I know. I just work here. :)

Re: As Angel Investors Pull Back, Valuations Take a Hit

#47
post #36
post #27

Whenever I see articles about how easily the investment money flows or had flowed all I can think of, from a purely self-centered point of view, is "what kind of loser am I that I have never been able to raise a single round?" Seriously, my ideas aren't objectively stupider than the ones I see funded. Even in this article, I mean, home eye exams? Did I read that right? How about a startup that will come to your house…

As a founder who has raised both angel and institutional $$, these articles can have the same effect on me. For nearly everyone, raising money is hard, especially in the beginning. Uber had trouble closing its first money. There's a lot of luck, hard work and network involved in getting $$ in. The first money is less about idea and more about reputation and hustle.

+1 (as a founder, too).

The obvious things: traction, good business plan, viable market, reputation/track record, team, etc. help. But luck and hustle are required, too.

Re: As Angel Investors Pull Back, Valuations Take a Hit

#48
post #27

Whenever I see articles about how easily the investment money flows or had flowed all I can think of, from a purely self-centered point of view, is "what kind of loser am I that I have never been able to raise a single round?" Seriously, my ideas aren't objectively stupider than the ones I see funded. Even in this article, I mean, home eye exams? Did I read that right? How about a startup that will come to your house…

I had (and have) a similar reaction. It was strongest when I was raising money back in 2000 for my first startup.

My co-founders and I were pretty dismayed by the anecdotes of "20 year-olds raising millions with just an idea!" because we were, well, 20-year-olds with a great idea, and the millions were NOT being thrown at us. (And not to sound too arrogant, but we were pretty much in the target demographic for that easy capital -- Harvard & MIT guys with a great idea and great demo.)

In the end, we did end up raising money -- after a LONG slog and MANY disappointing meetings. So we proved it was doable, but certainly not easy.

We came to a pretty simple conclusion back then: The anecdotes were either exaggerations, extrapolations from a tiny number of actual examples, or outright falsehoods. Remember, this was the first dot-com boom, and the story about kids with big ideas and tons of investor cash was a new one and played well in the press, so it's easy to understand why it got play.

These days, the story is different - and to staunch's point above, the "easy money" stories today are either coming from inexperienced/naive investors who think that's how things are done in Silicon Valley, or experienced investors throwing money at folks who have made money for them before (and why not? If your investee made you 10X on your last investment, it's understandable why in some cases, simply as a thank-you, you'd throw one of those Xs back at the new idea.

Re: As Angel Investors Pull Back, Valuations Take a Hit

#49

Valuations are fake, so who cares? I don't mean to be flip, but valuations are only important to other VCs. No surprise they created their own bubble. Valuations for the Uber-of-this or the AirBnB-for-that have been absurd. I'm not saying there aren't business opportunities there, but sometimes those opportunities are in the tens of millions of dollars, not billions, and hey, tens of millions is fantastic by the way.…

>Valuations are fake, so who cares? Because they actually aren't fake. I mean I get what you are saying, but the reality is that real money changes hands based on those valuations, so they are priced the same way as any other security: Someone says they will pay a certain price per share. I think the issue is that investors setting the prices as market makers don't have a super strong track record of doing valuations…

No, a valuation is pretty much meaningless without the context of the terms for the deal.

One of the most important clauses is the liquidation preference. There are many others.

Re: As Angel Investors Pull Back, Valuations Take a Hit

#50
Has something actually changed? I mean, appreciably in just a few months time?

Just goes to show angel investors, while an essential component of the startup ecosystem, can be emotional, illogical, and volatile.

If you're unable to accurately value what you invest in and prone to getting swept up in hype, you shouldn't be investing in startups (or maybe anything).

The ones who suffer in all this aren't the investors -- they're already rich. It's the employees who get shitted on, forced to work harder for less, or loose their jobs because of the whims of the market and other people's faulty thinking.

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