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Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

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Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#121

Post by fuck_google »

smt88 wrote: post #80
taf2 wrote: post #71

I am sure I'm a minority on this thread - but does anyone else think that if the engine is being developed in the open as open source then competition is not a good thing. I believe it's similar to having io.js and node.js - together it is a stronger platform. To this end, I think it would have made a lot of sense for MS to collaborate with webkit/blink and vice versa... that's the true spirit of open source IMO... I…

If "together" means Google is involved, I absolutely prefer the separation. Google has repeatedly screwed me over by letting their products stagnate and, sometimes, killing them off. I find it incredibly frustrating that so much of my work and digital life rely on the whims of Google.

Agreed. People need to get their head out of Google's ass and realize that Google has became just as bad as Microsoft of old, if not worse. Being dependent on any large organization is inherently bad as they seem to screw up everything they touch. We should strive for sustainability by embracing open, independent, decentralized development and services, even though it is harder.

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#122

Post by malandrew »

dogma1138 wrote: post #117
jeswin wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Almost all software has a primary platform. I have no disagreement with software having a primary platform. However, it would make a lot of sense for open source software to choose an open source platform as primary. Add: I guess what I'm saying is, if you're making enhancements to an existing Open Source project which already works on non-proprietary platforms, it would be better if those enhancements work equally…

There are tons of FOSS/OSS projects for which OSX is the main platform. Windows isn't exactly a "proprietary" platform, the OS is closed source and proprietary is but it's the wrong definition to use to describe it as a platform especially today with PAAS/IAAS. Windows isn't free that's true but as far as PAAS (Azure/Azure-Like) goes it's not really a critical part of the pricing, and even for IAAS it's not that impo…

What remarkable or known FOSS/OSS projects are OS X as the main or only platform that aren't inherently platform specific like homebrew?

I can't think of one open source project that I use that is only available on OS X or primarily an OS X project.

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#124

Post by _urga »

I'm not sure if Google and V8 have always gone out of their way to embrace Node and optimize V8 for Node. Perhaps they have. I'm not sure.

But this is Microsoft going out of its way to provide a swap-in engine for Node, with a focus on optimizing the engine for Node through benchmarks, and cross-platform builds in the pipeline.

Hopefully, Microsoft will be able to achieve the following:

1. A smaller Node binary through a stripped-down engine.

2. A GC optimized for Node and server applications.

3. An engine optimized for Node, working closely with Node's core technical team.

Perhaps this might encourage Google to do the same.

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#125

Post by rimantas »

oldmanjay wrote: post #101
Matachines wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone here tries hard to look "smart".

I don't try to look smart at all. I am smart and so don't need to try. I also appreciate humor. What I don't appreciate are simple Reddit-level karma-grubbing jokes, and I will vote them down every single time. You should be less cavalier with that broad brush. It isn't appreciated here.

I downvoted you for all the above reasons.

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#126

Post by ilaksh »

dang wrote: post #113
ilaksh wrote: post #59

But it currently doesn't actually support any other platform or have a design that would easily allow that. You are at the front lines of embrace, extend, extinguish. Get away from the Dark Side and the Empire and join the rebels, before you are forced to do something terrible.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10932756 and marked it off-topic.

Its not off-topic, embrace extend extinguish is a well documented policy of Microsoft (documented by internal memos that have been in the public domain for some time). Microsoft has been fined massive amounts for anti-trust issues. The web platform is the primary threat to Microsoft's business model since it constantly chips away at the near-monopolies in business and gaming software markets.

Many of the managers and team leads at Microsoft aren't aware of this policy or are in denial, but the people really running the programs are aware of the business reality and affect things like priorities, such as the design goals for this project.

The fact that Hacker News censored my comment is just evidence that Hacker News is in bed with large corporations, or just has no ability to stomach the harsh realities of our imperfect society.

I used to be a Microsoft developer many years ago, until I got a taste of what Microsoft was doing to web development. For the last several years I have been a Node developer.

Microsoft has contributed almost nothing important to Node, and this referenced effort is simply a danger to the Node ecosystem. That is the reality.

Censorship is a big part of the reason that I do not recommend Hacker News to people anymore.

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#127

Post by [deleted] »

malandrew wrote: post #122
dogma1138 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tons of FOSS/OSS projects for which OSX is the main platform. Windows isn't exactly a "proprietary" platform, the OS is closed source and proprietary is but it's the wrong definition to use to describe it as a platform especially today with PAAS/IAAS. Windows isn't free that's true but as far as PAAS (Azure/Azure-Like) goes it's not really a critical part of the pricing, and even for IAAS it's not that impo…

What remarkable or known FOSS/OSS projects are OS X as the main or only platform that aren't inherently platform specific like homebrew? I can't think of one open source project that I use that is only available on OS X or primarily an OS X project.

[deleted]

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#128

Post by kuschku »

magicalist wrote: post #112
kuschku wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More of a reason to stop supporting their bugs, and force users and servers to migrate to a more standard-compliant solution. You are just turning V8 into the new IE6 by adapting to it. (Although, in reality, you probably won’t be able to do this, and will end up having to support the non-standard behaviour of V8.)

I think you're confused. It's not a bug, try/catch executes just fine. try/catch just isn't supported by V8's Crankshaft so some people avoid putting it in potentially hot code.

Why do they avoid using it?

That's like not using CSS3 because IE6 doesn't support it.

Sure, some users of an antiquated browser will not get the full performance, but I have no sympathy for them.

If something doesn't work on Firefox, it's always "just switch to Chrome, our site only works on Chrome". If it doesn't work on Chrome, all hell breaks loose.

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#129

Post by dcherman »

Osiris wrote: post #109
Arnavion wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that different from how node v5 supports additional ES6/7 features that don't work in node v4? In the end you can only rely on package authors to be aware of their targets' capabilities and code to the minimum baseline accordingly.

npm needs to learn how to deal with that. For example, if a package is marked as requiring 5.4, but you have 4.2, then it should automatically use a tool like babel to convert unavailable ES6 syntax to ES5 for compatibility. I really want to be able to write my modules to take advantage of ES6 while not having to build all that babel stuff into my module for compatibility.

Some of that is possible, but some of that is not. Consider the use case of WeakMaps or Proxies that cannot truly be polyfilled, they need to be implemented at the language level.

Suppose you could transpile what is possible, then throw errors otherwise, however that would involve parsing each file in an NPM module which is probably an unreasonable task performance wise.

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