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Things I've learned at Google so far

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Re: Things I've learned at Google so far

#71

Post by jlees »

btilly wrote: post #67
jlees wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fairly common thing to do though. "My IQ is 200, but I don't believe in IQ tests. By the way did I mention my IQ was 200?" (Joking aside, I think you conveyed it pretty well, though I have no real clue what a GRE score of nearly 20 years ago means relatively speaking, or how you can convert it into a measure of intelligence at all...)

I don't see the site I used to estimate my IQ before. But http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/psychology/iq-conversion.html presents a calculator. And if you google around you can find other conversion charts that vary slightly from each other.

I could create a conversion calculator and it'd still be pretty meaningless. I just don't really understand how you can draw a direct comparison - it's not like the tests are that similar, although there is some overlap, and even using percentile of people taking the GRE is presumably pandering slightly to the fact it's a self-selecting audience and therefore not necessarily a bell curve, etc. I don't know, perhaps there are real proper studies on this to satisfy the lack of real science that's niggling me here, but given the grey area of 'measuring intelligence' I don't know how well-founded any of those are either.

Add to that the fact that things change as you age - I scored jolly well on an IQ test when I was 14, which gives me a nice score to slap down posturing pseudo-intellectual guys who like to compare mental dicksize at parties, but I'm well aware that I'd score nowhere near that now. I don't know. As I say, I think you brought it up well, I just don't quite see the relevance.

(Weirdly, though, converting the GRE score I got when I was 21 on that calculator results in almost exactly the IQ score I got when I was 14; perhaps there is something to it..!)

Re: Things I've learned at Google so far

#72

Post by jheriko »

JesseAldridge wrote: post #61
gyardley wrote: post #41

While I enjoyed the article, and I appreciate you posting it, one quibble: it's off-putting whenever anyone mentions a number they got on a test as evidence for intelligence. If you write intelligently, I'll happily consider you intelligent.

Why should that be off-putting? Standardized tests are pretty much the only way to objectively measure intelligence. Writing ability doesn't capture stuff like mathematical skill. Yes, yes, tests are imperfect. Everyone understands this. But they're the best measurement we have -- short of getting to know someone over the course of a few months or years. Also, tests, because of the way they establish some people as "…

I dunno about others but when I read it sounded a little arrogant.

For example, I have a Mensa gold certificate saying that I scored in the top 0.5% percentile on a test (actual IQ scores vary based on the type of test but mine was 143.5).

Sounds pretty arrogant, eh?

Generally any statement that equates to "I am intelligent" gets taken this way.

Re: Things I've learned at Google so far

#73

Post by maryrosecook »

jff wrote: post #10

As my boss likes to say, they have the free meals because they expect you to be there for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

I've never seen the problem with being at work for all three meals, given that breakfast and lunch closely bracket work hours.

If you are young and don't have a family, having your employer cook you healthy meals is probably a net time-saver, even if you do work 9am - 7pm.

Re: Things I've learned at Google so far

#74

Post by jheriko »

alexgartrell wrote: post #59
gyardley wrote: post #41

While I enjoyed the article, and I appreciate you posting it, one quibble: it's off-putting whenever anyone mentions a number they got on a test as evidence for intelligence. If you write intelligently, I'll happily consider you intelligent.

Having read this article, numerous other articles, heard from Google Employees in large and small settings, and knowing a few Google Interns, I can say one thing with absolute confidence. Google Engineers know that they're the best engineers, ever. I've always found it offputting, but maybe I'm just jealous or something. edit: Worth adding that this is a common thing among many engineers. Also, I know and like a numb…

That can't be right... because I /know/ that games programmers are the best engineers, and Google doesn't make games...

;)

Re: Things I've learned at Google so far

#75

Post by btilly »

alexgartrell wrote: post #59
gyardley wrote: post #41

While I enjoyed the article, and I appreciate you posting it, one quibble: it's off-putting whenever anyone mentions a number they got on a test as evidence for intelligence. If you write intelligently, I'll happily consider you intelligent.

Having read this article, numerous other articles, heard from Google Employees in large and small settings, and knowing a few Google Interns, I can say one thing with absolute confidence. Google Engineers know that they're the best engineers, ever. I've always found it offputting, but maybe I'm just jealous or something. edit: Worth adding that this is a common thing among many engineers. Also, I know and like a numb…

Actually you'd be wrong about that.

The truth is that people don't improve unless they can find shortcomings in themselves that can be improved upon. Which means that good people usually have no problem identifying people who are better at some things than they are. In my experience most have no trouble listing people who are simply better than they are.

So sure, I believe I'm pretty good. But am I as good as any of Robert Morris, Damian Conway or Alan Kay? Of course not, and I'd be an idiot to think otherwise.

Re: Things I've learned at Google so far

#76

Post by elblanco »

btilly wrote: post #65
elblanco wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised you don't know your own IQ score. I couldn't even make it to middle-school without having undergone a battery of at least a half-dozen IQ and aptitude evaluations. By the time I made it out of High School I knew probably more than any person should know about their own intelligence and had a pretty clear idea of the range my IQ would fall into as well as my learning styles, cognitive strengths and weakn…

Where I grew up in Canada we didn't bother with all of that. The SATs and GREs are the only standardized tests I've taken. And I only took those because I was considering going to US schools. If you're curious, on the SATs I got 1300. (For the younger people in the audience, the SATs were rescaled, that score was a lot better then than it would be now.) I believe that I'd have done better if I wasn't sick that day. H…

It may sound crazy after my previous comment, but I never took the SATs or GREs, GMATs etc. I managed to slip through schooling using a couple loopholes and skip the entrance exams all the way to my M.S.

Re: Things I've learned at Google so far

#78

Post by nostrademons »

dschobel wrote: post #68
neilk wrote: post #27

Hi there. I was a Noogler in 2005 or so, but it sounds like things haven't changed much, at least on that side. Regarding the stuff you're not supposed to talk about, there are three stages: 1. Amazement at how it all works; wanting to go run and tell all your friends. 2. Fear that talking about Google's advantages would undermine the company (or your position in it) 3. Recognition that nobody would believe you anywa…

Alright, I'll bite. We've all worked with really bright individuals before. What magically transformative thing happens when they become the average that would be so incredible and unbelievable to non-googlers? I would describe CS grad school as having "really bright people" as the norm, but while pretty cool, I would never deign to think it as incomprehensible to outsiders or that "nobody would believe [me] anyway".…

In my experience, Google employees individually are not much smarter or more productive than what you'd find in a top-tier computer science department or successful startup. Google's engineering reputation comes from having 20,000 of them, all with access to the same code & information, similar cultural values, and mostly aligned goals.

It's a critical mass problem. One smart person is a useful open-source library. Ten smart people is a successful startup. Twenty thousand smart people is Google.

There're certain efficiencies of scale that you can get with twenty thousand employees that are all empowered to work together. You get more specialization, so your UI designer is really good, and your UI engineer is really good, and your toolsmith is really good, and your backend algorithms person is really good, and the whole product benefits from that. You get the cross-pollination of ideas that occurs when smart people get together over food in a relaxed atmosphere. And you get the accumulated infrastructure built from having ten years of really smart people working on hard problems.

The network organization tends to eliminate the biggest problem that other tech companies have: scale. Typically, you eventually get a dumb middle manager placed on top of a bunch of smart programmers, and the whole group drops to the level of the weakest link. By empowering people to reach out across the organization to whoever's the best person for the task, regardless of the org chart, you can route around weak links. The organization starts being defined by its best performers instead of its worst performers.

Re: Things I've learned at Google so far

#79

Post by nostrademons »

amichail wrote: post #45
neilk wrote: post #27

Hi there. I was a Noogler in 2005 or so, but it sounds like things haven't changed much, at least on that side. Regarding the stuff you're not supposed to talk about, there are three stages: 1. Amazement at how it all works; wanting to go run and tell all your friends. 2. Fear that talking about Google's advantages would undermine the company (or your position in it) 3. Recognition that nobody would believe you anywa…

Do you think entrepreneurs would be happy there? After all, many compelling ideas would not fair well with Google's data-driven evaluation (at least in the short term).

There are a bunch of ex-entrepreneurs there, including myself. I think their happiness and success depends upon whether their entrepreneurial ideas align with the sorts of projects that Google would be good at, or whether they're better off striking out on their own again.

Re: Things I've learned at Google so far

#80

Post by btilly »

dschobel wrote: post #68
neilk wrote: post #27

Hi there. I was a Noogler in 2005 or so, but it sounds like things haven't changed much, at least on that side. Regarding the stuff you're not supposed to talk about, there are three stages: 1. Amazement at how it all works; wanting to go run and tell all your friends. 2. Fear that talking about Google's advantages would undermine the company (or your position in it) 3. Recognition that nobody would believe you anywa…

Alright, I'll bite. We've all worked with really bright individuals before. What magically transformative thing happens when they become the average that would be so incredible and unbelievable to non-googlers? I would describe CS grad school as having "really bright people" as the norm, but while pretty cool, I would never deign to think it as incomprehensible to outsiders or that "nobody would believe [me] anyway".…

We're allowed to talk about the smart people. The big deals are what those smart people have set up. That includes the actual scale of the problems we face, the technologies we have, the way development is organized, the way that overall work is organized, and how well the whole package works.

Of course I can't say anything specific about any of that because Google rightly views a lot of it as key competitive advantages. Which is why descriptions like mine about the experience of being at Google focus so much on the areas we are allowed to talk about. Like food and dogs and smart people.

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