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“Subject: Urgent Warning”

daniel.haxx.se

121–130 of 184 posts

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#121
So there's a lot of "LOL LOOK AT THIS DUMB PERSON I AM SO MUCH SMARTER THAN HER!" going on here, especially in the reply that he seems to have sent her.

Here's what's going on. Her IG account may, in fact have been hacked. This happens. She's obviously afraid and angry. She is the kind of person who thinks she can solve all of her own problems, and found the licenses section of the app, which included something with a nonsensical name (libcurl) and a domain "haxx.se". Despite having known that haxx.se is for libcurl basically forever, I occasionally see it and associate it with gray or black hat stuff before I remember. So it's not at all surprising that a non-initiate saw this and thought it might have something to do with her IG account being hacked.

Daniel says his reply to her original email was "clear and rational". It should have been "understanding, compassionate, and patient". This is someone who is seriously freaked out, because her livelihood is at risk, and based on the fact that she went digging through the app, she is probably having what a shrink would call a "crisis of control". So here's what the author should have done:

1 ) Patiently explain what libcurl does (it let's programs request web pages, just like a browser). Explain that he's the author, but he's given it away for free. The license is in the app because he took pains to ensure that nobody can package it up with some slick marketing and sell what he's giving away free.

2 ) Acknowledge that haxx.se sounds kind of shady. Explain why he chose the domain. Self deprecating humor would be great here. Explain that despite this, all kinds of apps use libcurl for perfectly benevolent purposes.

3 ) Explain that he has nothing to do with instagram (commenters have suggested the car parts analogy, which seems like a good plan).

4 ) Finally, and most importantly, link her to their hacked accounts page! They have people paid to deal with this stuff, who are much, much better at dealing with panicking laypeople.

There is a lot of "reason good, feelings bad!" stuff in the tech community these days. It makes people see us as a bunch of borderline autistic[1], self centered, stuck up, evil nerds. Many of us, myself included, were terrible with social interactions and dealing with our feelings at some point in our lives, so the finer points of human interaction and emotional thinking left a bad taste in our mouths. But we've all grown up. We aren't social rejects and evil nerds anymore. We have lives, careers, friends, and family. We need to let go of the stuff we suffered in our youth, forgive those "stupid popular kids", and learn how to be nice.

[1] In the sense of the popular conception of borderline autism, not the clinical condition, which generally doesn't make you a jerk.

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#122
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea terrifies me even more than it amuses me. The notion of the long-term influence that could be gained by a network of cooperating Time-Cube-style theorists is enough to give me nightmares.

See also the Freemen on the land who pass incoherent legal information on to each other.

For a good example of such a case:

http://captainranty.com/freeman-shafted-by-clueless-judge-2/

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#123
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems a bit... I want to say cruel, but maybe it's not? I'm sure most of these mathematical cranks have various kinds of mental illnesses. Perhaps referring them to each other is creating an ad-hoc support group, or perhaps it's just ridiculing them.

Agreed. However, at some point in time remember Galileo was also called a crank. Be careful in that respect.

Indeed. He was totally a crank, and also an asshole (which is what got him under house arrest). He was rightfully rejected by contemporary scientific community for pushing a model that didn't even agree with empirical data about planetary motions they've accumulated so far, as opposed to the commonly accepted models.

Yes, be careful in that respect, because the story of Galileo is one of the common historical misconceptions.

EDIT: Sources - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10878748.

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#124
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea terrifies me even more than it amuses me. The notion of the long-term influence that could be gained by a network of cooperating Time-Cube-style theorists is enough to give me nightmares.

Yet helping crackpots (along with every other motivated people) find each other is unavoidably part of what the Internet does. I believe the good coming out of it outweighs the bad, but you're definitely not the only one being afraid. It seems that many of those scared are those who've learned in a time of knowledge scarcity (it was difficult to find any information at all on any subject. It took at least a trip to a…

I was only half tongue-in-cheek. I'm not really that worried about obvious crackpots having an effect directly. It is entirely plausible though that they could have an indirect effect. If banded together they could reach more of the public with crackpot ideas, and even if the public generally recognizes these ideas as crackpot, they will have succeeded in shifting the Overton window, enabling public acceptance of less obvious crackpot theories.

I am worried though about the (further) rise of anti-intellectualism and anti-science. The effects of this should be pretty clear just by reading the news. This does worry me more than the concerns you've described.

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#125
post #13

The author information is part of the user interface, and can be as confusing as every other UI aspect. It should be carefully designed such that it is clear what the author takes responsibility for and what they don't. Some years ago there was a similar issue with the default Apache website on CentOS. Somebody that their webspace being reset by their hoster, but rather than complaining to the hosting community, the…

The CentOS story was named 'the Tuttle hack'. Googling for 'Tuttle hack' finds relevant links: https://lwn.net/Articles/177085/ https://web.archive.org/web/20060427011138/http://www.centos...

That conversation is very sad --- an absolute textbook example of how not to handle this kind of issue.

Instead of complicated, technical and annoyed explanations of what Linux was to someone who obviously just doesn't care, the simple statement that:

    Sorry, we make components for websites. This just means that your web people are using one of our components and has set it up wrong. You'll need to talk to your IT people; they'll be able to point you at someone who can help.
...would have gone a long way towards defusing the situation.

Given their first reply ('...we produced it for free and you are able to use it without paying us ... and are even threatening to have us arrested...') no wonder the conversation went badly. That's just being an arsehole.

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#126
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why all the downvotes for this comment? I think the point is reasonable. It's fine for us to use the word "hacker" in the non-criminal sense among ourselves (for example, the title of this site), but not where the general public is likely to see it and misunderstand it.

> but not where the general public is likely to see it and misunderstand it. So nowhere. It's on the public internet which is where 'the general public' is likely to see it so suggesting that you don't use some phrase where 'the public' can't see it in practically means you can't use it anywhere. I know the last thing I want to do is self censor myself everywhere because someone somewhere might get offended.

It's not "self-censorship," it's understanding that the generally-accepted definition of a word is different from it's obscure jargon meaning. The word "hacker" has meant "someone who maliciously breaks into computer systems" since at least the 1980's (thirty years ago, before some HN readers were even born). Languages are fluid.

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#127

So there's a lot of "LOL LOOK AT THIS DUMB PERSON I AM SO MUCH SMARTER THAN HER!" going on here, especially in the reply that he seems to have sent her. Here's what's going on. Her IG account may, in fact have been hacked. This happens. She's obviously afraid and angry. She is the kind of person who thinks she can solve all of her own problems, and found the licenses section of the app, which included something with…

Yes, absolutely. The whole episode is actually pretty sad and using it for laughs makes me uncomfortable.

...

As a tangent, you say:

> 2 ) Acknowledge that haxx.se sounds kind of shady. Explain why he chose the domain. Self deprecating humor would be great here.

I work in a big multicultural office --- I'm the only UK person in my team. We occasionally have these tedious courses on defusing disputes. One of the things they said that was actually helpful is that humour's generally not a good idea; it's way to culturally specific, doesn't translate well, and in particular doesn't come across in text.

Something which to a fellow UKer is obviously self-deprecating snark can look absolutely serious to someone from another culture, and can frequently make stuff worse.

I saw an interesting study the other day on punctuation in text messages. Even as simple a change as using a ! instead of a . at the end of a sentence can have a huge difference in the impact the message has...

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#128

Ah, this sort of thing is as old as the moon. We run an eCommerce platform, have a variety of clients using it, they have a number of customers. At least once a week we get an accusation either from a client or an end-user of some outlandish nefarious behaviour, usually due to some complete lack of understanding of the nature of technology. Way back when, we responded, tried to help, tried to explain, but it tends to…

> Anyway. When you have a conversation with an idiot, nobody watching can tell which one of you is the idiot. A friend of mine who works as a college professor has a fun approach to deal with the kinds of random cranks who contact him out of the blue seeking someone to validate their wild Time-Cube-style theories and "research": he responds to each one by providing an introduction to the previous one. Apparently, he…

Ah, I would swear something similar was mentioned in Simon Singh's Fermat's Last Theorem. ...Perhaps done by a mathematician who was a referee for the prize.

Anyone here recall?

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#129
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but not where the general public is likely to see it and misunderstand it. So nowhere. It's on the public internet which is where 'the general public' is likely to see it so suggesting that you don't use some phrase where 'the public' can't see it in practically means you can't use it anywhere. I know the last thing I want to do is self censor myself everywhere because someone somewhere might get offended.

It's not "self-censorship," it's understanding that the generally-accepted definition of a word is different from it's obscure jargon meaning. The word "hacker" has meant "someone who maliciously breaks into computer systems" since at least the 1980's (thirty years ago, before some HN readers were even born). Languages are fluid.

Yes languages are fluid but words also have various meanings. If we have to prevent ourselves from using some word because others may find it offensive, that is self-censoring.

OP tried to get around that by trying to say that when you could be heard by 'them' you shouldn't use those words, but this is the public internet. You are always communicating in the presence of those that will be offended.

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#130
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also the Freemen on the land who pass incoherent legal information on to each other.

For a good example of such a case: http://captainranty.com/freeman-shafted-by-clueless-judge-2/

...I got halfway through that before realising that the author was actually serious rather than using snark!
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