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Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

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Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#21

Post by nevi-me »

Interesting development, a good one at that!

A few questions though. Node tracks V8 releases, so the first thing I'm wondering is whether ChakraCore will continue emulating V8 APIs into the future? What happens when ChakraCore adds breaking changes which V8 doesn't support?

I presume MS will be supporting most development on the engine, as they benefit from IoT Core and other applications relying on Node. If Mozilla were to do the same and add SpiderMonkey, this would likely see the 3 major vendors accelerate adoption of JS standards further. I'm more bullish on JS development into the future.

If I were to predict, I'd see Node switching to ChakraCore as its primary engine in a year. V8 has been 'we build you follow'. I know Domenic and other Google developers have helped with the relationship with Node contributors, but what will happen when MS offers a less-maintenance-prone engine? Embrace, extend, extinguish!

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#22

Post by nevi-me »

tbrock wrote: post #19

This is awesome, but before anyone uses this for something real keep in mind that the way this works is that Microsoft has created a shim on top of Chakra that exposes a V8 API. If V8 changes its API drastically (which it frequently does) this little experiment is basically over. There is only so much work people can do to keep up with a moving target. Barring NodeJS creating an abstract JS engine API that developers…

Well said!

One of the issues that spawned io.js was the lack of keeping up with V8 changes. I was asking the same question of what happens when V8 does something MS don't follow? It'll be interesting to see in the future. Good thing this happened when Node has an open governance model, so we can follow developments in future.

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#23

Post by ohnomrbill »

joshmanders wrote: post #16
inglor wrote: post #2

This is incredibly cool, I have a request. Please do not post comments on the GH issue unless you have something important to add. These issues gain a lot of attention and it makes it _incredibly_ hard for collaborators to communicate. Locking the issue to collaborators means other people from the outside who have a significant contribution or want to help can't do that. Comments like +1 -1 and such create a signific…

Looks like that didn't work out well. https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/4765#issuecomment-172933... Right above your clone of this comment on the thread. :/

Looks like this is a trolling attempt. The comment was subtly changed and the author, https://github.com/ingIor, is a misspelling of inglor and has no contributions.

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#24

Post by cybice »

underbluewaters wrote: post #7

I don't understand what the goal is here. Honest question, not a criticism. Can someone please explain. Is the intention to have node work on multiple Javascript engines like spidermonkey? I can see why Chakra developers could want this but as a developer using node I don't see how I would benefit.

Node v8 memory limit is the big problem for me http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7193959/memory-limit-in-n... Sometimes I need to move data outside heap memory - Buffers etc. Looks like chakra have no such problem.

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#25

Post by domenicd »

nevi-me wrote: post #21

Interesting development, a good one at that! A few questions though. Node tracks V8 releases, so the first thing I'm wondering is whether ChakraCore will continue emulating V8 APIs into the future? What happens when ChakraCore adds breaking changes which V8 doesn't support? I presume MS will be supporting most development on the engine, as they benefit from IoT Core and other applications relying on Node. If Mozilla…

Chakra only works on Windows. They have on their roadmap plans to work on the interpreter on other platforms, but nothing about getting the JIT running. So I sincerely doubt we'd see a switch.

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#26

Post by domenicd »

It's important to remember that ChakraCore only currently builds on Windows, so this is only for Windows Node.js builds.

The ChakraCore roadmap [1] shows that they plan on porting the interpreter to Ubuntu, but not to Mac OS, and they don't plan on porting the JIT. So even it does go Windows + Linux, it will still be a low-performing toy on Linux.

This is vaguely interesting from a technical point of view, but doesn't seem like it'll majorly impact the future of Node.js, except maybe as something Microsoft can offer for Azure customers that choose Windows Server.

[1]: https://github.com/Microsoft/ChakraCore/wiki/Roadmap

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#28

Post by krisdol »

cybice wrote: post #24
underbluewaters wrote: post #7

I don't understand what the goal is here. Honest question, not a criticism. Can someone please explain. Is the intention to have node work on multiple Javascript engines like spidermonkey? I can see why Chakra developers could want this but as a developer using node I don't see how I would benefit.

Node v8 memory limit is the big problem for me http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7193959/memory-limit-in-n... Sometimes I need to move data outside heap memory - Buffers etc. Looks like chakra have no such problem.

Isn't it just --max-old-space-size=whateveryouwant? The default of 512mb seems pretty reasonable.

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#29

Post by dsp1234 »

nevi-me wrote: post #21

Interesting development, a good one at that! A few questions though. Node tracks V8 releases, so the first thing I'm wondering is whether ChakraCore will continue emulating V8 APIs into the future? What happens when ChakraCore adds breaking changes which V8 doesn't support? I presume MS will be supporting most development on the engine, as they benefit from IoT Core and other applications relying on Node. If Mozilla…

I'm wondering is whether ChakraCore will continue emulating V8 APIs into the future?

One of the comments on the pull request talks about this a little.[0]

"I have separately reached out to each of the V8 and Chakra teams and invited both to sit down face to face to work through the API/ABI impact of this change and figure out how we can make the ABI layer more robust."

[0] - https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/4765#issuecomment-172935...

Re: Enable Node.js to Run with Microsoft's ChakraCore Engine

#30

Post by ihsw »

domenicd wrote: post #26

It's important to remember that ChakraCore only currently builds on Windows, so this is only for Windows Node.js builds. The ChakraCore roadmap [1] shows that they plan on porting the interpreter to Ubuntu, but not to Mac OS, and they don't plan on porting the JIT. So even it does go Windows + Linux, it will still be a low-performing toy on Linux. This is vaguely interesting from a technical point of view, but doesn'…

Seems comparable to the divide between Go and GccGo -- largely identical but conceptually very distinct.

I don't know of anyone voluntarily using GccGo.

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