Is Computer science paralyzed by accepting E. Dijkstra's research and comments as valid?
That is also how I read the title.
E. Dijkstra: Computer science is paralyzed by accepting this moron as their typical customer.
21–26 of 26 posts
Re: E. Dijkstra: Computer science is paralyzed by accepting this moron as their typical customer.
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
yes, very much so. Just thought it was funny (it was how I read the headline at first). There was an amusing anecdote about a company not being allowed to start coding until 70% of the project time had elapsed - taken out of context (and there is a LOT of context) that is somewhat contrary to current practices.
It is not. Depends on what do you refer to by "current practices". Dumb CRUD projects surely can be coded on the fly using so-called "agile" approach without much thinking. "Steer left or right as required" works very well for them. The thing is, most of online discussions, especially on YC are revolving around web-based CRUD to-do lists or something similar, whose complexity (something Dijkstra was very much concern…
I am in violent agreement with you, but slightly amused that we are in the minority.
Its 2008 and we are still getting interested/excited in CRUD frameworks for web apps?
Re: E. Dijkstra: Computer science is paralyzed by accepting this moron as their typical customer.
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sorry but it's bullshit. I taught myself programming with BASIC when I was a kid, my first programs were horrible, unstructured things with GOTOs everywhere and redundant code and yet I was able to teach myself Scheme as well a few years later. In fact, I find that I understand the point behind useful programming language constructs (and, yes, their beauty) after spending some time suffering due to the lack of th…
You have a lot to prove. A giant as big as Dijkstra was, he publicly said that "corentin has mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration" and you're out to prove him wrong. Good luck. :-) Makes me feel more lucky for starting with x86 assembly although I am not sure it's any better than BASIC. God bless us!
Miranda was my first language. Did me a fat lot of good ;)
Re: E. Dijkstra: Computer science is paralyzed by accepting this moron as their typical customer.
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sorry but it's bullshit. I taught myself programming with BASIC when I was a kid, my first programs were horrible, unstructured things with GOTOs everywhere and redundant code and yet I was able to teach myself Scheme as well a few years later. In fact, I find that I understand the point behind useful programming language constructs (and, yes, their beauty) after spending some time suffering due to the lack of th…
You have a lot to prove. A giant as big as Dijkstra was, he publicly said that "corentin has mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration" and you're out to prove him wrong. Good luck. :-) Makes me feel more lucky for starting with x86 assembly although I am not sure it's any better than BASIC. God bless us!
Giants routinely get things wrong. It's called an argument from authority. The consequences of accepting arguments from authority because of their authority can be damaging and wasteful--read about Linus Pauling and Vitamin C, for example. So I would say he has no more to prove than otherwise.
Re: E. Dijkstra: Computer science is paralyzed by accepting this moron as their typical customer.
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think Dijkstra's absolutisms have aged particularly well. On some things he turned out completely right, on other things staggeringly wrong. In this article, look at his endorsement of the idea that coding should be left to the final 25% of a project's schedule. It's all very hit and miss, yet he delivers every claim in the same godlike tone of infallibility. The idea that maybe everything hasn't been figured…
Dijkstra could not predict that in 2007 to-do lists and message boards like Facebook will become multi-billion dollar businesses. Sorry to poop on your beliefs, but "agile" BS can be applied only on CRUD projects that have nothing in common with Computer Science.
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Re: E. Dijkstra: Computer science is paralyzed by accepting this moron as their typical customer.
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
yes, very much so. Just thought it was funny (it was how I read the headline at first). There was an amusing anecdote about a company not being allowed to start coding until 70% of the project time had elapsed - taken out of context (and there is a LOT of context) that is somewhat contrary to current practices.
It is not. Depends on what do you refer to by "current practices". Dumb CRUD projects surely can be coded on the fly using so-called "agile" approach without much thinking. "Steer left or right as required" works very well for them. The thing is, most of online discussions, especially on YC are revolving around web-based CRUD to-do lists or something similar, whose complexity (something Dijkstra was very much concern…
Yeah, that's why the "real" government projects are such outstanding successes. Because pour millions for over a decade only to find out at the end that your components don't integrate is a GREAT idea.
True, a lot of the applications developed today are crap. But a lot of the large scale applications can benefit the same way from test driven development, user stories and iterative development. The problem is a lot of folks overreact to agile and think it means doing no design or thinking at all. That's simply not the case.