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“Subject: Urgent Warning”

daniel.haxx.se

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Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#61

Post by mahouse »

elthran wrote: post #23
elthran wrote: post #6

Definitely agree with one of the comments on the blog - the domain (haxx.se) really doesn't help the author's case here when trying to explain to a layperson.

Also, from http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/about/ >I’m Daniel Stenberg, a network hacker working for Mozilla. Sigh. Why does everyone have to be a hacking rockstar ninja? What's wrong with not using a word that has negative connotations to the rest of the world, and just calling yourself a developer/engineer?

Even though I agree completely with you, you came to Hacker News to say that

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#62

Post by Cthulhu_ »

madaxe_again wrote: post #33
xlayn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When you have a conversation with an idiot, nobody watching can tell which one of you is the idiot". They are not idiots, they are average people, tech is complex, I wonder if people who have to be told or explain things to represent a market to attend? Imagine, something were you call a number ask for something to be bought; later someone go picking up the money, you perform the purchase and you later deliver. No c…

If you bellow at a stranger because you don't understand something, you're an idiot, sorry. I'd like to hope an "average" person would not gloss over gaps in their knowledge and jump to a hostile conclusion. In your scenario, say you're the phone company - would you think it reasonable if the customer who called in your example blames you for their having made a call and placed an order, because the phone line must h…

> If you bellow at a stranger because you don't understand something, you're an idiot, sorry.

But the thing is, does the bellower know they don't understand something? Few people are mature enough (especially when angry) to admit they really don't understand something (and this is probably prevalent in software development circles / communities, too)

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#63

Post by hawkice »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #62
madaxe_again wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you bellow at a stranger because you don't understand something, you're an idiot, sorry. I'd like to hope an "average" person would not gloss over gaps in their knowledge and jump to a hostile conclusion. In your scenario, say you're the phone company - would you think it reasonable if the customer who called in your example blames you for their having made a call and placed an order, because the phone line must h…

> If you bellow at a stranger because you don't understand something, you're an idiot, sorry. But the thing is, does the bellower know they don't understand something? Few people are mature enough (especially when angry) to admit they really don't understand something (and this is probably prevalent in software development circles / communities, too)

I'm not sure being ignorant of your own ignorance is enough to promote yourself out of 'idiot' status.

I don't think these people are dumb, just frustrated. But your phrasing was curious to me.

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#64

Post by matthucke »

mattlutze wrote: post #29

Lest Stenberg get tangled up too much in the email-sender's unfortunately troubles, he should likely refer the emailer to Instagram and Spotify's customer support. As an aside, hopefully someone can recommend to the emailer as well to use a different service to host high-quality versions of her photography so that potential clients can evaluate critical clarity in her technique. I'm not sure I'd want to rely on Insta…

Instagram is an unfortunate necessity for pro photographers in certain fields, such as weddings, simply because that's where the potential customers begin their search. They're not photo enthusiasts, they've never heard of Flickr or 500px, they don't know what clarity and composition are... but they want someone to shoot their wedding, and in their minds Instagram equals photo sharing.

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#65

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

elthran wrote: post #23
elthran wrote: post #6

Definitely agree with one of the comments on the blog - the domain (haxx.se) really doesn't help the author's case here when trying to explain to a layperson.

Also, from http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/about/ >I’m Daniel Stenberg, a network hacker working for Mozilla. Sigh. Why does everyone have to be a hacking rockstar ninja? What's wrong with not using a word that has negative connotations to the rest of the world, and just calling yourself a developer/engineer?

"hacker" was positive before it was negative, it's fine to hang onto it, because at worst you're only hurting yourselves (hackers). (and it's not even a pejorative, anyway)

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#66

Post by Cthulhu_ »

pilif wrote: post #17
vxxzy wrote: post #4

If you desire to respond, I would relate the topic to her field. She claims to be a photographer. Surely she has a vague idea of copyright law. I would explain that you had developed a piece of Intellectual Property and licensed said property in a specific form -akin to taking a photograph. The person who takes a photograph owns the copyright. It just so happens that Spotify and Instagram, "enjoy your work" and have…

or, even easier to understand analogy: Daniel is the person on the photograph, Spotify/Instagram are the photographers and the hacker is the person who just stole the picture.

Daniel is the photographer, Spotify uses his pictures, random user contacts him after finding his address in the attribution.

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#67

Post by Cthulhu_ »

webapper wrote: post #20
elthran wrote: post #6

Definitely agree with one of the comments on the blog - the domain (haxx.se) really doesn't help the author's case here when trying to explain to a layperson.

On my SaaS application's file submission page, I have a small paragraph directed toward administrators along the lines of: If you'd like to batch upload your files, download curl from (haxx.se url), and use the following command line, bla bla bla. Having this link to "haxx.se" is a relatively high volume source of comments by my users.

Might be worth for either you or haxx.se to use a more neutrally-worded redirect or alias domain. Something with curl in it.

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#68

Post by rakoo »

madaxe_again wrote: post #33
xlayn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When you have a conversation with an idiot, nobody watching can tell which one of you is the idiot". They are not idiots, they are average people, tech is complex, I wonder if people who have to be told or explain things to represent a market to attend? Imagine, something were you call a number ask for something to be bought; later someone go picking up the money, you perform the purchase and you later deliver. No c…

If you bellow at a stranger because you don't understand something, you're an idiot, sorry. I'd like to hope an "average" person would not gloss over gaps in their knowledge and jump to a hostile conclusion. In your scenario, say you're the phone company - would you think it reasonable if the customer who called in your example blames you for their having made a call and placed an order, because the phone line must h…

> If you bellow at a stranger because you don't understand something, you're an idiot, sorry.

If you think everyone has to know everything before seeking help, then you are the idiot, sorry.

The woman probably doesn't know what a software is, other than a "Download" button on a website and an icon on the toolbar. Do you expect those people to differentiate between the software and the libraries underneath ?

Of course she doesn't understand, but she doesn't know she doesn't understand. That's the very source of the problem, and assuming they're idiot for not having spent the hundreds of hours necessary to understand what we're talking about is ludicrous.

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#69

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

This sort of confusion could be partly resolved if apps with "License" or "Legal" screens would actually have a little explanatory paragraph at the top, explaining what it is they contain in layman's terms. For the average person, I imagine that scrolling through one of those would be quite bewildering, especially if WTFPL stuff was in there.

Re: “Subject: Urgent Warning”

#70

Post by Arnt »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #46
madaxe_again wrote: post #24

Ah, this sort of thing is as old as the moon. We run an eCommerce platform, have a variety of clients using it, they have a number of customers. At least once a week we get an accusation either from a client or an end-user of some outlandish nefarious behaviour, usually due to some complete lack of understanding of the nature of technology. Way back when, we responded, tried to help, tried to explain, but it tends to…

> Anyway. When you have a conversation with an idiot, nobody watching can tell which one of you is the idiot. A friend of mine who works as a college professor has a fun approach to deal with the kinds of random cranks who contact him out of the blue seeking someone to validate their wild Time-Cube-style theories and "research": he responds to each one by providing an introduction to the previous one. Apparently, he…

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