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All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

theatlantic.com

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Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#171

Post by brightball »

jurassic wrote: post #94

This level of inequality makes me sad. Really sad. I know I can't be the only working stiff in the valley whose poor siblings and family think they are rich for earning in the $100-150k range. Nevermind that I can't afford to buy a house here. I can't enjoy my success because of the near-desperate financial situations I see my relatives enduring. My sister gave me a $50 gift for christmas, and it brought tears to my…

There's a lot of truth behind those small decisions. My dad wanted to be a mechanic like his dad (who owned an auto shop) was but ended up changing his mind and deciding to become a doctor instead. Not joking.

Because my dad became a doctor he was able to put me and 5 of my cousins through college. He makes the original decision and my entire family is completely different today.

Granted, we wouldn't know the difference.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#172

Post by iambateman »

746F7475 wrote: post #130
neppo wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he/she is probably not from the US, 30k is a high enough salary in other countries.

I currently work in Finland and earn $35k/year, but granted I currently live alone in a small flat. I own older model car. I don't consume a lot of food. Which leaves me with most of my salary to spend/save as I see fit. Maybe in time I come to see lack of my salary, but for past ~4 years I only had student welfare which left me with little less than 200€/mo (~$220) after rent and stuff for food and what little hobbi…

I came out of school making $34k and did wonderfully. I was/am happy. After 2 years I bought a house. Making more money doesn't necessarily make life better ;)

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#173

Post by brightball »

randycupertino wrote: post #99
jurassic wrote: post #94

This level of inequality makes me sad. Really sad. I know I can't be the only working stiff in the valley whose poor siblings and family think they are rich for earning in the $100-150k range. Nevermind that I can't afford to buy a house here. I can't enjoy my success because of the near-desperate financial situations I see my relatives enduring. My sister gave me a $50 gift for christmas, and it brought tears to my…

I feel you. My brother is a restaurant manager in the middle of Kansas making 30k a year. And he is a smart guy who was a MATH MAJOR at a state school! He could come out here and get a job at a startup and make 80k easily. But he won't leave his inlaws family, so he's stuck in Kansas. There is some strain and resentment in our relationship over our income differential, sure... especially when I want to complain that…

Yea, cost of living is a big deal. I live just outside of Greenville, SC in a little town called Easley. When graduated from college I had an 1100 square foot, 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment with a washer and dryer for $500 / month that was 10 minutes from downtown Greenville (beautiful, booming area - http://www.visitgreenvillesc.com/). Also have some of the cleanest water in the country, which I never really appreciated until I started watching the news.

My cousin who lives in LA heard that and told me I couldn't rent somebody's closet in LA for $500 / month. With all of the remote work opportunities, it actually kinda blows my mind that more people don't move down this way and work remote. On sheer cost of living it would be like giving yourself a huge raise.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#174

Post by Kurtz79 »

746F7475 wrote: post #130
neppo wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he/she is probably not from the US, 30k is a high enough salary in other countries.

I currently work in Finland and earn $35k/year, but granted I currently live alone in a small flat. I own older model car. I don't consume a lot of food. Which leaves me with most of my salary to spend/save as I see fit. Maybe in time I come to see lack of my salary, but for past ~4 years I only had student welfare which left me with little less than 200€/mo (~$220) after rent and stuff for food and what little hobbi…

As other people have said, it makes little sense comparing wages between states in the same country, even less between countries...

If I´m not mistaken, Finland has free healthcare, education and generous welfare system (that you said you benefited from, as you should), all of these should be taken into account when making comparisons, since they factor in the taxes companies have to pay for hiring people.

That said, it still seems a bit low for Finland, but ok for a recent graduate.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#175

Post by alphonsegaston »

nkurz wrote: post #92
analyst74 wrote: post #85

As a foreigner, I have to ask, is life very different for non-white working classes? Is it better, worse or equally suck in different ways?

It's dangerous to generalize, but as a white American originally from a poor rural part of the US with few minorities, I'd say that the regional and economic differences usually trump the racial differences. In most communities being white would be an advantage, but the rich/poor divide is often greater than the white/non-white divide. Prejudice certainly plays a role in the opportunities people have, but I think tha…

I'm from a similar background and this is unfortunately untrue. The average white household, for example, has something like 12 times the wealth as the average black household, a near historic high. What this means is that despite an appearance of greater equality in some circumstances, minority populations are still in a much more tenuous position. A white household is more likely to survey an inevitable crisis like losing a job or problems with health than their black counterpart.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/12/racial-wealt...

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#176

Post by zardo »

746F7475 wrote: post #130
neppo wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he/she is probably not from the US, 30k is a high enough salary in other countries.

I currently work in Finland and earn $35k/year, but granted I currently live alone in a small flat. I own older model car. I don't consume a lot of food. Which leaves me with most of my salary to spend/save as I see fit. Maybe in time I come to see lack of my salary, but for past ~4 years I only had student welfare which left me with little less than 200€/mo (~$220) after rent and stuff for food and what little hobbi…

In Finland you have a social safety net. In the US if you're out of a job you have to pay your own health insurance, you have to keep paying down your student loans, and if you ever want to retire you should probably save and invest the money yourself.

So don't be surprised we worry about money.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#177

Post by zardo »

JanezStupar wrote: post #161
spacecowboy_lon wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you have a >1,000,000 mortgage debt that sucks up a lot of your salary doesn't make you a millionaire. Its if you have > 1 mill in liquid assets that you are a millionaire.

Poor people don't consider 1MM$ mortgages.

Do you remember 2004-2008? Maybe you didn't get to see it first hand, but in the US, it happened.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#178

Post by TheGirondin »

vinceguidry wrote: post #77

I will never miss an opportunity to trot out my favorite quote: “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - Ronald Wright Americans are just going to have to get over themselves and figure out how to cooperate with their peers. We will take any opportunity to lash out at the ones we love. Dude's wife left him aft…

Yes, people certainly love that quote because it means that can simply dismiss anyone who doesn't think the same way they do with having to do any critical thinking on their part to understand the actual reasons they disagree.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#179

Post by mason240 »

rawTruthHurts wrote: post #139
mback00 wrote: post #89

"Not lucky enough" - that just gauls me every time I hear it. If someone chooses to slack off (only HS education w/o trade and w/o entreprenurial ambition)... They are automatically ranked by the willfully ignorant as "unlucky." Please! There has never been a place and time in the history of mankind when a man with a will could not make something of himself as today! A man with an idea can easily and quickly form a c…

Those working lads extracting diamonds in Congo with their bare hands don't have much of an opening in the world either. I'm sure they don't work hard enough to deserve it.

It's pretty clear the domain of this discussion is first world, Western countries of Canada, US, and the EU.

Re: All Hollowed Out: The lonely poverty of America’s white working class

#180

Post by mason240 »

alphonsegaston wrote: post #175
nkurz wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's dangerous to generalize, but as a white American originally from a poor rural part of the US with few minorities, I'd say that the regional and economic differences usually trump the racial differences. In most communities being white would be an advantage, but the rich/poor divide is often greater than the white/non-white divide. Prejudice certainly plays a role in the opportunities people have, but I think tha…

I'm from a similar background and this is unfortunately untrue. The average white household, for example, has something like 12 times the wealth as the average black household, a near historic high. What this means is that despite an appearance of greater equality in some circumstances, minority populations are still in a much more tenuous position. A white household is more likely to survey an inevitable crisis like…

You simply can't in good faith compare the averages of the two groups because the range is different. You are treating a range of people from destitute trailer park residents to Bill Gates as a homogeneous group.
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