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Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence

togelius.blogspot.com

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Re: Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence

#11

Post by togelius »

purpled_haze wrote: post #8

> Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence And here's why they aren't: First-person Shooters. Why give AI something that's a goal that involves killing things that look like humans or animals for points? That's a recipe for disaster. Breakout's not much better either. How often do you need to break a wall to smithereens with a ball? Never.

It's hard to create believable AI in a first-person shooter. See: http://nn.cs.utexas.edu/?botprize2012

It's actually really hard to create well-performing AI in a first person shooter, unless you give it explicit access to the internal state of the game. See: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=612949...

Re: Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence

#12

Post by togelius »

jonmrodriguez wrote: post #6
bitwize wrote: post #2

I don't think building an AI is the most important task on our plate. We still have those disease, hunger, poverty, and war problems to contend with. If building an AI helps us solve those, then sure, let's build the AI. But I don't think strong AI is necessary to gain traction on the problems that confront the sapient beings we already have around.

Along similar lines, since AI is considered to be potentially dangerous, by figures from Elon Musk to Stephen Hawking, I would rather our civilization never open this pandora's box. We can solve Earth's problems and even spread to the stars without AI. We can invent fusion reactors and thus nearly free energy without AI. We can engineer biological immortality into our very genes without AI. Why risk playing with a lo…

So how exactly would we go about to make sure that no-one does research on AI? Which particular kinds of research would we ban? And how would we enforce it?

Re: Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence

#13

Post by coderdude »

purpled_haze wrote: post #8

> Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence And here's why they aren't: First-person Shooters. Why give AI something that's a goal that involves killing things that look like humans or animals for points? That's a recipe for disaster. Breakout's not much better either. How often do you need to break a wall to smithereens with a ball? Never.

FPS games are a great playground for learning, regardless of the killing. If you can teach an AI to hunt, kill, and avoid being killed, then you've got something interesting on your hands. Once you have the system in place that can learn how to do those things, you don't have to keep it training on a violent game. You can switch it to Minecraft. We don't care if AI kills zombies.

Re: Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence

#14

Post by throwaway999888 »

jonmrodriguez wrote: post #6
bitwize wrote: post #2

I don't think building an AI is the most important task on our plate. We still have those disease, hunger, poverty, and war problems to contend with. If building an AI helps us solve those, then sure, let's build the AI. But I don't think strong AI is necessary to gain traction on the problems that confront the sapient beings we already have around.

Along similar lines, since AI is considered to be potentially dangerous, by figures from Elon Musk to Stephen Hawking, I would rather our civilization never open this pandora's box. We can solve Earth's problems and even spread to the stars without AI. We can invent fusion reactors and thus nearly free energy without AI. We can engineer biological immortality into our very genes without AI. Why risk playing with a lo…

I agree. We have a come a long way already, and I would personally prefer that we do our best to not screw up what we already have. That includes global warming, unleashing Strong AI, and so on.

It might suck to actually have to work, even as much as 40 hours a week or more in this day and age and with the productivity increases we've seen. But I don't think work itself is that horrible that I would bet my leisure on some AI that consumes the known Universe making and collecting stamps.

Re: Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence

#15

Post by niels_olson »

togelius wrote: post #5
bitwize wrote: post #2

I don't think building an AI is the most important task on our plate. We still have those disease, hunger, poverty, and war problems to contend with. If building an AI helps us solve those, then sure, let's build the AI. But I don't think strong AI is necessary to gain traction on the problems that confront the sapient beings we already have around.

I would say that progress on general AI can solve a lot of the problems we are facing. To take an obvious and down-to-earth example, let's say we "solve" logistics in the sense that we can transport things wherever we want, timely and cheaply. That would help us with a lot of the problems we are facing, such as hunger. And for solving logistics we essentially need the same skills we need as for solving game-playing.

Yeah, this is a bit like saying we don't need to go to Mars because we should solve poverty first. Solving the problems of going to Mars will solve a lot of other problems and create a lot of industries along the way.

Solving AI will solve a lot of other problems and create a lot of industries along the way.

A great deal of poverty is a mismatch between bodies and skills needed in the workforce. We haven't needed ditch diggers since some son of a gun invented the backhoe. Stay in school kids. Stay in school.

Re: Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence

#16

Post by proc0 »

bitwize wrote: post #2

I don't think building an AI is the most important task on our plate. We still have those disease, hunger, poverty, and war problems to contend with. If building an AI helps us solve those, then sure, let's build the AI. But I don't think strong AI is necessary to gain traction on the problems that confront the sapient beings we already have around.

How would it not? Instead of AI, think of building a digital brain. This brain will think everything a human brain can think but leveraging ALL the power of computers! It could easily solve world's most difficult problems in a matter of days, just by networking with copies of itself and working tirelessly because it will not need sleep.

Re: Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence

#17

Post by proc0 »

purpled_haze wrote: post #8

> Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence And here's why they aren't: First-person Shooters. Why give AI something that's a goal that involves killing things that look like humans or animals for points? That's a recipe for disaster. Breakout's not much better either. How often do you need to break a wall to smithereens with a ball? Never.

FPS's is only one genre. Not to mention, they are already being used by the military with exactly that purpose, so we've already failed at this. Whatever our true nature of humans is, an AGI will just help us get their quicker.

Re: Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence

#18

Post by proc0 »

Very interesting read, and I always knew about this being an avid gamer since as far as I can remember. It always intrigued me how a computer can play against a human, and as games got more sophisticated, interacting with AI's got more and more human-like.

Aside from using them as benchmarks, they way games are capable of simulating a world will probably be key in creating a true AGI. In the comment section of the article, we're already seeing some theories that involve video games not just a tests, but as a primary component of the intelligence architecture. Very exciting times!

Re: Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence

#19

Post by redbeard0x0a »

proc0 wrote: post #16
bitwize wrote: post #2

I don't think building an AI is the most important task on our plate. We still have those disease, hunger, poverty, and war problems to contend with. If building an AI helps us solve those, then sure, let's build the AI. But I don't think strong AI is necessary to gain traction on the problems that confront the sapient beings we already have around.

How would it not? Instead of AI, think of building a digital brain. This brain will think everything a human brain can think but leveraging ALL the power of computers! It could easily solve world's most difficult problems in a matter of days, just by networking with copies of itself and working tirelessly because it will not need sleep.

Or kill us in the process as the most expedient way to get rid of medical problems that affect humans.

Re: Video games are essential for inventing artificial intelligence

#20

Post by CardenB »

pgodzin wrote: post #4

Really interesting to think about the skills necessary just to play a modern open-world game such as Skyrim successfully. NLP to understand dialogue and actions that need to be taken based on what NPC's/quests/item descriptions say, strategies for several different enemies with different strengths and weaknesses, exploring the open world in a logical order. When you think about the difficulties of such a loosely defi…

I think the main argument (regarding fears of AI) is that, by the time you've solved the aforementioned problems, it's too late. AI can learn so quickly that we won't be able to anticipate it properly.
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