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Ask HN: What sites do you use to find contract work?

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Re: Ask HN: What sites do you use to find contract work?

#101

Post by jeddawson »

pmorici wrote: post #93
akshatpradhan wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I love Upwork, and I pay my contractors well. What Upwork provides me with is an incredible ability to keep payments maintained and work honest. There's a sense of honesty when using the oDesk application, where both parties can say, "we feel confident that parties will get paid, and work can be reviewed." Neither my contractors nor I would want to move to any other platform because no other platform prov…

Would you be willing to share with us the average $/hr rate you pay your Upwork employees? I'd be willing to bet it is quite low. As an employer I can totally see why you would love it, it's an effective way to pay bottom dollar for simplistic computer tasks. From the stand point of someone looking to get into software engineer contract work it's lame. The guaranteed payment thing you are talking about is only for pr…

I use upwork to sub-out work that I don't have time to tackle or for tasks that I lack expertise in. Once I've found someone on the platform that is really talented at what they do, I return to them for subsequent projects that need their skillset. The challenge on that platform is finding the people that stand out since there are so many low-bar contributors.

Examples of work that I use it for are simple html/css stuff that just needs to get knocked out prior to integration into an app. I'll pay between $300-500 from some straight forward design to html/css conversion. I want it to be worth their while.

Also, I've use it frequently for GIS work. I'm just not proficient in it and would rather pay someone that is. I managed to find an incredible person on upwork and give him the specs for each project before I quote my customers. He sets the price for the GIS components and I routinely encourage him to charge more.

So to be clear, I don't use upwork to find a deal on the project (no doubt a ton of people do). I use it because it is a platform that can keep talented people busy and available for the next time I need to rely on them. I'd hire a full time GIS expert if I had steady work for the, but I don't so going with a subcontract makes a lot more sense.

Re: Ask HN: What sites do you use to find contract work?

#102

Post by edc117 »

vvpan wrote: post #98
peterbsmith wrote: post #19

Personal networks. I came into Syracuse knowing nobody and nothing. I had never done any app making as of January 2015. I had done some wordpress stuff, but just the basics. And I had (and have) no CS degree. I now make a living on contract work. I did it by going to local meetups and introducing myself as a freelance web developer. Nevermind that I hadn't done freelance web development ever. I kept going to meetups…

So without any experience you are able to charge $150/hour?

Seconding this question, this is baffling to me. I could see maybe getting through the door with some less-saavy clients and collecting a pay check for a few weeks, but I can't imagine that working for long. How long are you typically employed? What happens if you encounter projects you are unable to solve, is it a fake it until you make it sort of thing?

Re: Ask HN: What sites do you use to find contract work?

#103

Post by pan69 »

evv wrote: post #67
scrollaway wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never met a successful consultant of any kind who relied on or even used marketplaces You have now. I started on PeoplePerHour. Once I had a few good reviews on my profile, I could get jobs more easily; eventually got some big clients off them, which pushed me to PPH's top 5 and I was able to get whichever job I would bid on from then on; I'd always seek the large ones that would last a few months. At the time…

> If you pick a bad client, or a job where you need more time than you anticipated to complete it, you might end up underpaid These things are easier said than done. Could you share a bit about what you've learned in the way of avoiding bad clients and estimating your work?

The way I screen a client is by getting them to write a brief in an email. The reasons I do this is;

a) Its easy for clients to blurt stuff out over the phone without a second thought. It's impossible for me to take accurate notes on this, only to get an impression of what they're after.

b) A written brief tells a lot about someone's communication capabilities. When a written brief is poor then I have a better idea on how to deal with a client like this, i.e. I have to do a lot more hand holding and depending on my existing workload I can either decide to let them go or not.

Also, watch out for clients who bring carrot danglers, i.e. they will suggest that you should do this project either for cheap or free because they have a lot of other projects coming up in the near future (they don't). In this scenario simply reply that you have to charge 100% for this project but that you might be able to give a discount on a future project, you won't hear from them again since they want cheap or free.

Also, never lower your hourly rate but give a discount instead. This means that clients still see what you'd normally charge and if they come back in the future you actually can charge them your normal rate.

Re: Ask HN: What sites do you use to find contract work?

#104

Post by imaginenore »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #81
imaginenore wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of rates do you see on TopTal?

at Toptal you can set your own rate in advance

I know, but that's not what I'm asking. Do you see any offers?

I started registering on TopTal, but then got too lazy jumping through their hoops and not knowing what the upside is.

Re: Ask HN: What sites do you use to find contract work?

#105

Post by ksenzee »

vitd wrote: post #39
andreasklinger wrote: post #7

I used to do a lot of contract work. I can't tell you what you should do - but here is what i did and it worked for me Two approaches: 1) Work for one large client and essentially become an employee (consider this. a lot of startups pay good money for remote employees) 2) Work for multiple clients Focusing on #2 here Core rule: You want to be paid premium for quality and service. Avoid marketplaces - it's very hard t…

It's been over 10 years since I had my own business, but when I did, I tried to use "we" instead of "I" and paint the business as a business offering services rather than one person trying to get work. It became very frustrating dealing with recruiters (the people who typically contact you for work). A typical conversation would go something like this: Me: I see you're looking to fill a position involving a lot of gr…

On the flip side, I recently was hiring for a senior engineer position, where I specified individuals only, and was inundated with emails from firms who were sure they could "help me out" with a "full-service solution." Maddening.

Re: Ask HN: What sites do you use to find contract work?

#106

Post by scrollaway »

evv wrote: post #67
scrollaway wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never met a successful consultant of any kind who relied on or even used marketplaces You have now. I started on PeoplePerHour. Once I had a few good reviews on my profile, I could get jobs more easily; eventually got some big clients off them, which pushed me to PPH's top 5 and I was able to get whichever job I would bid on from then on; I'd always seek the large ones that would last a few months. At the time…

> If you pick a bad client, or a job where you need more time than you anticipated to complete it, you might end up underpaid These things are easier said than done. Could you share a bit about what you've learned in the way of avoiding bad clients and estimating your work?

Estimating your own prices is something even I have trouble doing after 10 years, so I won't be too much help there. But to avoid bad clients, you really just have to make sure you talk to them and fully understand the project before accepting the job.

Bad clients will always have red flags early on. If you talk to them for 30 minutes and the job is already twice the size you initially thought it was, you might be with someone who will want to ask for more along the way.

If there is any doubt:

- Ask for a small % in advance or a larger % in escrow. Clients that can't handle that are unlikely to be easy to deal with come time of the bill.

- If the project is unclear, ask for sketches/photoshops before signing the final contract. You can also do those yourself and ask if this is what they have in mind.

- Make sure to have a written transcription of exactly what you will do, alongside the contract. Emails, transcribed/recorded calls, etc.

If you're a core part of your client's product, they will more than likely be willing to hire you for more work, or as an employee for continued maintenance.

And don't be afraid of saying no to shitty contracts. One really good client can easily bring you a year's worth of work.

Re: Ask HN: What sites do you use to find contract work?

#107

Post by odonnellryan »

A lot of people are saying job websites don't work. I don't agree with them.

I've been consulting over a year (US-based, near NYC) and I've found plenty of very good clients (small and large) through freelancing websites.

Few loose guidelines I've used to help me with applying to gigs:

1) Evaluate if you think the person understands the value of the work, and only reply if you can somewhat-confidently answer "yes."

2) Reply to gigs that say "$5" or some other crazy low number, as long as they seem competent at explaining their project.

3) ALWAYS follow up with your past clients! Ask them for new work regularly.

Re: Ask HN: What sites do you use to find contract work?

#108

Post by [deleted] »

akshatpradhan wrote: post #60
pmorici wrote: post #12

I would avoid sites like Upwork (aka: odesk), elance, and anything similar like the plague unless working for less than minimum wage and dealing with morons is your idea of good contract work. I suspect the secret to contract work success lies in having really good networking skills and a Rolodex of contacts from having worked in a given industry and having a reputation as someone who delivers. If you don't have that…

I disagree. I love Upwork, and I pay my contractors well. What Upwork provides me with is an incredible ability to keep payments maintained and work honest. There's a sense of honesty when using the oDesk application, where both parties can say, "we feel confident that parties will get paid, and work can be reviewed." Neither my contractors nor I would want to move to any other platform because no other platform prov…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What sites do you use to find contract work?

#109

Post by j45 »

aggieben wrote: post #21
andreasklinger wrote: post #7

I used to do a lot of contract work. I can't tell you what you should do - but here is what i did and it worked for me Two approaches: 1) Work for one large client and essentially become an employee (consider this. a lot of startups pay good money for remote employees) 2) Work for multiple clients Focusing on #2 here Core rule: You want to be paid premium for quality and service. Avoid marketplaces - it's very hard t…

Don't charge by the hour but by the value This sounds like a recipe for disaster to me without a lot more explanation. Time is the main cost to a provider, so it's very natural that time would also be the driver for billing. "Charging for value" sounds like you're trying to say "fixed price" without actually saying it. I have many, many issues with trying to do fixed price projects of any appreciable size (say, more…

You can charge by value when you understand the scope of work, have the ability to manage it, and manage risk. The customer gets a fixed price for a fixed scope with a fixed process.

Re: Ask HN: What sites do you use to find contract work?

#110

Post by pacomerh »

odonnellryan wrote: post #107

A lot of people are saying job websites don't work. I don't agree with them. I've been consulting over a year (US-based, near NYC) and I've found plenty of very good clients (small and large) through freelancing websites. Few loose guidelines I've used to help me with applying to gigs: 1) Evaluate if you think the person understands the value of the work, and only reply if you can somewhat-confidently answer "yes." 2…

Can you elaborate on #2 ?, are you saying that starting a good relation is more important?
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