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Open-source infrastructure is not venture-backable

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Re: Open-source infrastructure is not venture-backable

#31

Post by occamrazor »

scrollaway wrote: post #21
toomuchtodo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about a new civil servant job: OSS maintainer. https://18f.gsa.gov/ EDIT: > We are transforming government from the inside out, creating cultural change by working with teams inside agencies who want to create great services for the public.

How wonderful is that site... https://18f.gsa.gov/2016/01/12/hacking-inclusion-by-customiz... I can't tell what's more wrong here. The passive-aggressiveness of writing a bot to correct people, or the fact it's going on on a .gov. (And before you scream at me for being a heartless sexist bastard or some such, this would be just as messed up if it were a bot that corrects your->you're. Passive aggressiveness certainly…

Not strictly relevant question : I've heard (British) women address a group of women saying "Hey, guys!"

Is this common in UK/US/rest of the Anglosphere? Is it PC/anti-PC/neutral?

PS: in case it isn't obvious, I am not a native speaker.

Re: Open-source infrastructure is not venture-backable

#32

Post by toomuchtodo »

scrollaway wrote: post #30
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For the record, I don't know who they are - I've seen them linked once before but I have no ties nor love for San Francisco and their work is very localized." "And seeing as my previous post is predictably getting instant downvoted, I should also state that I really don't care about PCness one way or another. What I do see is that "fixing government" apparently includes policing how people talk to each other in an e…

sighs When I said "the work is very localized", I meant that neither it nor its effects reach beyond the US - there are other countries. I did take a couple of minutes to look them up further before commenting, but I was not aware it was completely forbidden to comment on first impressions on HN. You'll forgive the confusion, I see a lot of first-impression-driven comments around here. You seem to be aggressively def…

> You seem to be aggressively defending them - Why?

I defend anyone who is attempting to effect positive change in the world, aggressively.

For the record, I have no relation or affiliation to 18F, or the USDS.

Re: Open-source infrastructure is not venture-backable

#33

Post by _iie2 »

scrollaway wrote: post #27
toomuchtodo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

18F is doing phenomenal work fixing government. I'll let the excessive PC-ness slide. It's a bot. Ignore it.

For the record, I don't know who they are - I've seen them linked once before but I have no ties nor love for San Francisco and their work is very localized. So I don't particularly doubt their work but I literally just picked the top post on their front page. If they are doing phenomenal work, I'm not impressed :) And seeing as my previous post is predictably getting instant downvoted, I should also state that I rea…

I work at 18F, here's my hot take:

It's been pretty well established that needlessly (male) gendered language makes people feel excluded. Actually, that's too nice. That kind of language excludes people. Period.

It communicates that the speaker does not contemplate a non-male audience. I do not know about the communities that you moderate, but constantly assuming a male audience at a place like 18F is wrong factually and is disrespectful.

I've triggered the slackbot by using "guys" many times and I've never felt that this was aggressive in any way. It's usually a chuckle-worthy experience for all involved. And that's why I love the bot. I do understand concerns over "policing" language. No one wants to feel pestered into writing/talking in a way that feels unnatural to them. However, instincts should not be above criticism. And a silly bot[0] is a great way to gently, politely, and humorously help people unlearn behavior that excludes.

[0] We have other silly bots, too. The one we probably love to hate the most is angrytock (https://github.com/18f/angrytock), which will remind us to submit our time cards (using our open source time tracker, Tock. https://github.com/18f/tock).

Re: Open-source infrastructure is not venture-backable

#34

Post by someguydave »

She completely misses the fact that all of these open source tools run on top of completely closed and secretive hardware platforms. It's true that Intel (for example) is 'well-funded', but Intel has a track record of selling out the user's best interest (even if it is just transparency) for a profitable purpose. And Intel is among the better companies in the OSS world.

Re: Open-source infrastructure is not venture-backable

#35

Post by scrollaway »

occamrazor wrote: post #31
scrollaway wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How wonderful is that site... https://18f.gsa.gov/2016/01/12/hacking-inclusion-by-customiz... I can't tell what's more wrong here. The passive-aggressiveness of writing a bot to correct people, or the fact it's going on on a .gov. (And before you scream at me for being a heartless sexist bastard or some such, this would be just as messed up if it were a bot that corrects your->you're. Passive aggressiveness certainly…

Not strictly relevant question : I've heard (British) women address a group of women saying "Hey, guys!" Is this common in UK/US/rest of the Anglosphere? Is it PC/anti-PC/neutral? PS: in case it isn't obvious, I am not a native speaker.

It's not uncommon, I've seen it a lot in England. If the group is 100% women, a lot of people would say "hey girls". It seems far less common in the US. But yes, "guys" is used as a gender-neutral "group of people". We also do it sometimes in french.

As for whether it's PC/anti-pc/whatever, this is really down to the intent behind it and how it's perceived by the recipients. If you're a woman, addressing other women as "guys", there's no ill intent (and none received). It's far more offensive to have someone else police your words...

Re: Open-source infrastructure is not venture-backable

#36

Post by xorcist »

striking wrote: post #15
toomuchtodo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can this tshirt still be purchased somewhere?

This was a Xen T-shirt around 2013-2014 ( http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_Swag#Hall_of_Fam... ) but it seems to be missing from the xen.org store unfortunately ( http://www.cafepress.com/xen_org ) It seems simple enough, though. Make your own!

The sleeve says "Best Practical", makers of RT, so that's presumably where he got his.

Re: Open-source infrastructure is not venture-backable

#37

Post by toomuchtodo »

scrollaway wrote: post #35
occamrazor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not strictly relevant question : I've heard (British) women address a group of women saying "Hey, guys!" Is this common in UK/US/rest of the Anglosphere? Is it PC/anti-PC/neutral? PS: in case it isn't obvious, I am not a native speaker.

It's not uncommon, I've seen it a lot in England. If the group is 100% women, a lot of people would say "hey girls". It seems far less common in the US. But yes, "guys" is used as a gender-neutral "group of people". We also do it sometimes in french. As for whether it's PC/anti-pc/whatever, this is really down to the intent behind it and how it's perceived by the recipients. If you're a woman, addressing other women…

> It's far more offensive to have someone else police your words

But which is entirely understandable in a workplace environment.

Re: Open-source infrastructure is not venture-backable

#38

Post by EC1 »

gopi wrote: post #14

I think top tech philanthropists like Zuckerberg and Gates should look into this.

Zuckerberg has spawned a new era of addiction that we haven't fully realized yet because we are still living in it and have yet to see the outcomes. Facebook is a net negative for society.

Social media has replaced the really terrible feelings. When's the last time you were sad and alone for an entire day? Likely never, you can pull out your phone at any given second and plug those feelings, and you'll stop there and never realize what forces those feelings really have. It's the forces of human despair that drive us to do big things. Social media drowns out that force. You can plug any sad moment with a bit of social media and bring yourself from 'sometimes really sad' to 'never sad but always mediocre'.

I'm not the best at articulating ideas but I hope you know what I mean. We are slowly all becoming the same person in a different shell and it's terrifying.

Re: Open-source infrastructure is not venture-backable

#39

Post by PhasmaFelis »

hwestbrook wrote: post #24

Seems as though she undermines her whole point with the "Here’s what is true about the “open source is really well funded” myth" section. The open source projects that people/businesses really care about are funded. Isn't a non-funded open source project just one an open source project that no one really cares about? I think there is a really subtle line that she has missed by assuming all open source projects develo…

> The open source projects that people/businesses really care about are funded. Isn't a non-funded open source project just one an open source project that no one really cares about?

It's one that no one with substantial spare cash cares about.

Granted, it's broadly understood that people without money aren't actually people, but it's considered gauche to say so out loud.

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