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Wikipedia Turns 15

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Re: Wikipedia Turns 15

#101

Post by Retric »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #83
Retric wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, there are plenty of people worth following out there. But, a few minutes of random searching is probably not going to show you one of the gems. Unless, I am just bad at finding videos.

Consider then finding an on-line community of enthusiasts first. Like, in case of woodworking, /r/woodworking and some of the other subreddits listed in the sidebar there. Spend few minutes there, and you'll know where to find the best 5% of woodworking sources available to mankind . Let me emphasize it - thanks to the Internet, you have access to the best knowledge and experience entire humanity has produced. All it…

I think your vastly overstating what videos people put online.

I think woodworking is hard to qualify. So, let's simplify.

1) A master craftsman video demonstrating how to make an Italian style flat bread oven from someone that spent ~15+ years learning and building them.

2) One of those small but highly accurate mechanical clocks that's accurate enough for navigation at sea.

3) A European ed: (English) style saddle made by a craftsman, as in someone that made and sold 100 others before it.

I am sure there are at least a few hundred people with those skills world wide, but actually finding a detailed video made by one of them online seems much harder. As in something that's good enough to learn from not just advertising or a 'how it's made' video showing some highlights.

It's 3:30 EST on Friday. Let's give it 24 hours. ;)

Re: Wikipedia Turns 15

#102

Post by Zikes »

Retric wrote: post #101
TeMPOraL wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider then finding an on-line community of enthusiasts first. Like, in case of woodworking, /r/woodworking and some of the other subreddits listed in the sidebar there. Spend few minutes there, and you'll know where to find the best 5% of woodworking sources available to mankind . Let me emphasize it - thanks to the Internet, you have access to the best knowledge and experience entire humanity has produced. All it…

I think your vastly overstating what videos people put online. I think woodworking is hard to qualify. So, let's simplify. 1) A master craftsman video demonstrating how to make an Italian style flat bread oven from someone that spent ~15+ years learning and building them. 2) One of those small but highly accurate mechanical clocks that's accurate enough for navigation at sea. 3) A European ed: (English) style saddle…

Moving the goalposts to the furthest conceivable distance isn't going to prove anything to anybody. Nobody claimed you could completely master a trade skill just from watching YouTube videos.

Re: Wikipedia Turns 15

#103

Post by edgyswingset »

cooper12 wrote: post #96
edgyswingset wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that blog post is really applicable. It's shunning the idea of using designer tools to generate mockups of Wikipedia which focus on eye candy at the expense of content. That's not really what's going on with Wikiwand.

I think it is applicable in how it brings up how these redesigns focus on aesthetics at the expense of information. Wikiwand puts aside what it doesn't think is important, but if they had talked to anyone who actually uses Wikipedia they would learn otherwise. For example, look how much prominence it gives to images. While these are aesthetically pleasing, they reduce the information density and give the images more…

Except Wikiwand isn't a Wikipedia redesign. It's explicitly a Wikipedia reader, and even advertises itself in that way.

Re: Wikipedia Turns 15

#104

Post by Retric »

Zikes wrote: post #102
Retric wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your vastly overstating what videos people put online. I think woodworking is hard to qualify. So, let's simplify. 1) A master craftsman video demonstrating how to make an Italian style flat bread oven from someone that spent ~15+ years learning and building them. 2) One of those small but highly accurate mechanical clocks that's accurate enough for navigation at sea. 3) A European ed: (English) style saddle…

Moving the goalposts to the furthest conceivable distance isn't going to prove anything to anybody. Nobody claimed you could completely master a trade skill just from watching YouTube videos.

The parent post (TeMPOraL) said:

have access to the best knowledge and experience entire humanity has produced

Sure, you can find plenty of videos on how make a hard boiled egg, apply tile, or do a card trick... But, that statement seems way over the top.

PS: Though, this is one case where I would haply be proved wrong.

Re: Wikipedia Turns 15

#105

Post by mtone »

rodionos wrote: post #18

Congratulations, Wikipedia! I found it tremendously useful over the years. I have one suggestion for them. I wouldn't mind making micro-donations for articles of particular quality and relevance to me. Say I find something useful and click on a '2c' donation button. The system doesn't trigger an immediate payment transaction because I would not have time to do it but instead waits until I accumulate $1+ in 'spend' an…

I think in that case I would somehow expect part of the money go towards the authors. By giving to Wikipedia as whole, it's easier to accept that I'm supporting the infrastructure and not the content.

Re: Wikipedia Turns 15

#106

Post by spott »

reasonality wrote: post #61
klenwell wrote: post #59

I was talking to a friend the other day and came up with a term to sorta quantify what I consider perhaps the most important revolution of my lifetime: TTK or Time To Knowledge. The example I always use, the occasion when it first occurred to me, was a couple years ago when, for some reason, I decided I wanted to make a foam for a cocktail. Within 5 minutes, I had found a video on Youtube illustrating how, not to men…

All magic comes at a price. You could have learnt other tricks of the trade, could have made new friends talking to that human bartender. Talking to someone who is a master at something is far more valuable than asking the internet specific questions - how do you know what questions to ask...

This is a valuable point. I no longer just ask questions of people: I try to be respectful of their time by trying hard myself to figure out the answer first.

The upside is that I learn a bunch of things. The downside is that I rarely have a question for anyone anymore. I'm either too lazy to dig into the question online to be sure that the question is worth asking, or I figure out the answer on my own.

Talking to someone who is a master at something is much more valuable than the internet... but the definition of a "stupid question" is becoming smarter.

Re: Wikipedia Turns 15

#107

Post by Wingman4l7 »

rodionos wrote: post #18

Congratulations, Wikipedia! I found it tremendously useful over the years. I have one suggestion for them. I wouldn't mind making micro-donations for articles of particular quality and relevance to me. Say I find something useful and click on a '2c' donation button. The system doesn't trigger an immediate payment transaction because I would not have time to do it but instead waits until I accumulate $1+ in 'spend' an…

This could also create a valuable dataset -- which pages on Wikipedia provide content that people consider useful enough to that they'll contribute funds.

Re: Wikipedia Turns 15

#108

Post by rgovind »

theklub wrote: post #39
deepnet wrote: post #24

I pay monthly to wikipedia, I use it tens of times a day, it is a fantastic unparalleled resource - a real public good. Wikipedia is a proof of a utopian vision that infused the early web - ensuring public rights wins public contribution. Humanities collective knowledge is better distributed because of Wikipedia, a true wonder of the modern world. IMHO, we must treasure wikipedia as it is not clear it could happen ag…

I feel like wikipedia killed the web in a way. Anytime you search for something 95% of the time wikipedia is the first result and thus 99% of the time it is I go to it for information. What websites or innovations have we missed out on because of this?

It is a limitation of your search engine, not of wikipedia

Re: Wikipedia Turns 15

#109

Post by markc »

I first encountered Jimbo back in the 80's when he ran the Moderated Discussion of Objectivist Philosophy (MDOP), an Objectivist mailing list that featured brilliant philosophical discussions among the stars of the Objectivist community. Jimbo's contributions were consistently excellent as well. [Anyone know if there's an archive anywhere?]

It was quite a surprise when he turned up years later in an entirely different context as a founder of Wikipedia - though I'm not surprised he did something big. His charisma showed in his MDOP contributions and he always seemed destined for something big. Congrats Jimbo, and all the other people who have made Wikipedia, for this amazing asset to humanity.

Re: Wikipedia Turns 15

#110

Post by Rotten194 »

Retric wrote: post #81
prawn wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Versus learning from the first person you come across in real life? Or not at all because it's all too hard compared with searching the net?

IMO, there is a fair amount of. "Those who can do. Those who can't teach." Sure, you can find some videos of people making a wooden clock online. It's much harder to find master craftsman making a watch. A few PHD students putting together an electric car vs. someone at GM actually designing a car. Home cook vs. Five Star Chef. Granted, generally an amateur is fine. But, don't be surprised if there making several mis…

Clickspring. /r/artisanvideos
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