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Bitcoin Is Dead, Long Live Bitcoin

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Re: Bitcoin Is Dead, Long Live Bitcoin

#71

Post by empath75 »

yc1010 wrote: post #22
mabbo wrote: post #9

The problem with bitcoin, as I see it, is that discussion of problems that may exist can lower the value of bitcoin- whether the problem is real or not. If you're heavily invested emotionally with bitcoins, you need to discuss these problems so that they can be solved. If you're heavily invested financially , you need to make sure no one talks about these problems, at least until you have a plan for how you're not go…

Well the problem is THAT DISCUSSION OF SOLUTIONS to bitcoin issues are being censored, with key people being banned from the usual discussion forums A decentralized currency where the development, mining and discussion is controlled by less than a dozen people which is a joke

It's sort of absurd that there's only two places to talk about bitcoin. There's no reason that a small cabal of people should have so much control over the flow of information about any serious asset.

Re: Bitcoin Is Dead, Long Live Bitcoin

#74

Post by pavel_lishin »

droffel wrote: post #61
pavel_lishin wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, did they keep the fact that they had over 13,000 BTC stolen for over a year and a half ?

Yup. They were insolvent for a year and a half, and paid out people with pending withdrawals when new people deposited new coins. How people thought it was a good idea to keep using them, I have no idea. There had been warnings about their solvency literally for the past year, starting with permanently "pending" BTC withdrawals, and slowly spreading to not allowing withdrawal of the altcoins on the site.

> How people thought it was a good idea to keep using them, I have no idea.

Well, if they had no idea that they were missing all those bitcoins, then the reason is plain ignorance on the depositors' part, and criminality on Cryptsy's part.

Re: Bitcoin Is Dead, Long Live Bitcoin

#75

Post by dragontamer »

supster wrote: post #66
aurelius12 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble is that Visa functionality already exists and it already works really, really well for both consumers and merchants.

The Visa fee of 1-3% is too expensive in the internet era. It made sense 50 years ago when cost of moving information was high, but now it's just rent seeking.

Yeah, except BTC transaction costs are skyrocketing due to the blockchain size being too small. So basically, Visa will continue being Visa, and BTC will refuse to compete against it.

Honestly, the proper competition vs Visa is ACH-based transactions like Dwolla.

Re: Bitcoin Is Dead, Long Live Bitcoin

#77

Post by pbreit »

supster wrote: post #57
slg wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with an economics background, I'm surprised you think the biggest problem is the statelessness of Bitcoin. The biggest economic problem to me has always been an unintelligent control of the money supply. You can criticize some of the actions that many central banks do to manipulate the economy, but I have a hard time buying the answer to bad management is no management.

The money supply is fixed to 21 million. Fortunately, the coins are basically infinitely divisible, so as the coins become more valuable (assuming over the long run that coins are used for larger and larger amounts of commerce rather than speculation), small transactions simply happen at smaller units. In other words the system is steadily deflationary instead of the highly volatile inflationary system we currently h…

When it comes to volatility, bitcoin is at one end of the spectrum and every other currency at the other.

Re: Bitcoin Is Dead, Long Live Bitcoin

#78

Post by xorcist »

supster wrote: post #66
aurelius12 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble is that Visa functionality already exists and it already works really, really well for both consumers and merchants.

The Visa fee of 1-3% is too expensive in the internet era. It made sense 50 years ago when cost of moving information was high, but now it's just rent seeking.

It's not just the fees, but the payment processors. You need a contract with them and you need to integrate with their systems at high cost. This is something you normally solve with yet another middleman, like a bank or Stripe.

In contrast, Bitcoin is permissionless. Just install the software and receive payments just like anyone else. That's what something born in the Internet age looks like.

Re: Bitcoin Is Dead, Long Live Bitcoin

#79

Post by nickbauman »

snowwrestler wrote: post #64
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #30

Back in 2009 when I was getting into bitcoin, it was widely described as a "stateless currency" and not just an alternative to Visa or credit cards. Having a background in economics, bitcoin looked to me like a truly revolutionary technology and if it was adopted en masse would change politics forever. The problem however is that a nation's currency is arguably the primary source of it's sovereignty. Whomever control…

> The problem however is that a nation's currency is arguably the primary source of it's sovereignty. The reverse is also true--any significant currency creates sovereignty by elevating the power of those with the greatest influence over that currency. In the case of Bitcoin, the "core" developers, in addition to the highest-volume miners, have been elevated to the sovereign position. Rather than a distributed statel…

Exactly this. Humans have complex social structures. Notice, too, how the sorts of animals humans domesticate are animals with a strong social hierarchy. This is key: to control the lot, you must subjugate the leader. Famously, Zebras were never domesticated because they lack this hierarchy.

Re: Bitcoin Is Dead, Long Live Bitcoin

#80

Post by a_c_s »

snowwrestler wrote: post #64
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #30

Back in 2009 when I was getting into bitcoin, it was widely described as a "stateless currency" and not just an alternative to Visa or credit cards. Having a background in economics, bitcoin looked to me like a truly revolutionary technology and if it was adopted en masse would change politics forever. The problem however is that a nation's currency is arguably the primary source of it's sovereignty. Whomever control…

> The problem however is that a nation's currency is arguably the primary source of it's sovereignty. The reverse is also true--any significant currency creates sovereignty by elevating the power of those with the greatest influence over that currency. In the case of Bitcoin, the "core" developers, in addition to the highest-volume miners, have been elevated to the sovereign position. Rather than a distributed statel…

The actual essay is well-worth a read: http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
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