A critique of "How to C in 2016"

Post by LeonidasXIV » Fri, Jan 15, 2016, 2:08 PM UTC

krylon wrote: post #98

EliRivers wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's simple and low-overhead and compilers for it exist on every lump of hardware I've ever had to work with, from a clunky x64 to a PIC to a TigerSHARC to a bizarre DSP thingy from a tiny fab lab somewhere. A great many of the problems that people experience with C code can actually be nullified (zing!) by finding a competent C programmer who does the job properly. A tool being easy to misuse doesn't mean we…

The key phrase here is " if you can avoid it". When your target platform is an 8-bit microcontroller or an embedded system with hard real-time requirements, your options are very limited. But there are plenty of situations where there are alternatives, and often these allow you to solve your problem in less time, with much lower risk of bugs than in C. As always in life, one has to evaluate one's options, consider th…

Post by clort » Fri, Jan 15, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

dietrichepp wrote: post #43

lultimouomo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same argument we shouldn't assume that bits have only two values - what, you mean I can't write C for my ternary logic computer? You need to make a decision about which simplifying assumptions you make - C has decided not to assume there are 8 bits to the byte. I think it's arguable that in 2016 this is not the best decision, and they could get rid of some cognitive overhead by making the simplifying assumptio…

Unfortunately, there are real world systems with C compilers that do not have 8 bit bytes. It's easy to forget the embedded world. C is one of the very, very few languages that you can reasonably expect to run on your weird embedded microprocessor, microcontroller, DSP, or whatever. Bit, however, means "binary digit". That's the literal definition of the word. Historical usage of the word "byte" has varied.

Post by SloopJon » Fri, Jan 15, 2016, 2:15 PM UTC

benbenolson wrote: post #111

pjmlp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but in a way C is the JavaScript of systems programming languages, in a deep need of a "The Good Parts" book as well.

I'm sorry, but is this comment a joke? Have you ever read "The C Programming Language", and seen how simple C is? These arguments that the two OPs are having are important, but only when faced with obscure architectures that nearly nothing but C will run on. Conversely, JavaScript's failures are not because of the wide variety of architectures that it supports (a tiny fraction of C's), but instead on the monolithic a…

Post by LeonidasXIV » Fri, Jan 15, 2016, 2:16 PM UTC

benbenolson wrote: post #111

pjmlp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but in a way C is the JavaScript of systems programming languages, in a deep need of a "The Good Parts" book as well.

I'm sorry, but is this comment a joke? Have you ever read "The C Programming Language", and seen how simple C is? These arguments that the two OPs are having are important, but only when faced with obscure architectures that nearly nothing but C will run on. Conversely, JavaScript's failures are not because of the wide variety of architectures that it supports (a tiny fraction of C's), but instead on the monolithic a…

Post by pjmlp » Fri, Jan 15, 2016, 2:22 PM UTC

krylon wrote: post #98

EliRivers wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's simple and low-overhead and compilers for it exist on every lump of hardware I've ever had to work with, from a clunky x64 to a PIC to a TigerSHARC to a bizarre DSP thingy from a tiny fab lab somewhere. A great many of the problems that people experience with C code can actually be nullified (zing!) by finding a competent C programmer who does the job properly. A tool being easy to misuse doesn't mean we…

The key phrase here is " if you can avoid it". When your target platform is an 8-bit microcontroller or an embedded system with hard real-time requirements, your options are very limited. But there are plenty of situations where there are alternatives, and often these allow you to solve your problem in less time, with much lower risk of bugs than in C. As always in life, one has to evaluate one's options, consider th…