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There are no secure smartphones

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Re: There are no secure smartphones

#51
post #4

It's good to draw attention on baseband processors, but there are technical assertions in this post that are probably not accurate (lack of auditing and the notion that you can assess the security of a whole phone system by whether or not there's an IOMMU). The systems security of modern phones is surprisingly complex. Google and Apple both care very deeply about these problems, and both have extremely capable engine…

The premise of the article is flat out wrong. Mainstream smartphones do not provide DMA access from the baseband to the application processor's memory. The connection is usually HSIC, which is a chip-to-chip USB derivative. https://www.synopsys.com/dw/dwtb.php?a=hsic_usb2_device The AP is responsible for setting up buffers for communication and manages its own host controller. But like I2C or even older UARTs, the AP…

What is the impetus to trust assertions of independence given both processors are still on the same die?

Mobile phones have a readily available control/backhaul channel and there's a long history of carrier enforced device control and state mandated telecom surveillance effecting [sic] the design culture. Qualcomm obviously works with the NSA, if only to protect against infiltration by other intelligence agencies. So it's really a question of whether the NSA is willing to have their root kits require physical installation or not.

Re: There are no secure smartphones

#52
I have address as a response to gue5t how creating a chain of trust may not be a doable goal as probably every part of the system is not trust-able.

However I'm thinking a different approach can be taken, suppose we abstract the different ways for communication a device has and use them as sockets or layers and then create an algorithm that distributes the communication through several channels.

For example two cellphones

-one against another using the light on one screen against the camera of the other

-the vibrator motor captured by the microphone

-introducing certain pattern of noise in Bluetooth communication by the other radios

-communication through stenography

-sending huge amounts of information (the more information the more power needed to discriminate, understand)

-abuse how things are not supposed to work (instead of sending packets in the correct order, use ping as a way of sending data by crafting the requests).

-Custom network stack

-use of a customized version of encryption with extra large keys (think 20480 bits instead of 2048)

-and last but not least use an algorithm that mutates the distribution logic based on certain algorithm dependent on time (in the same fashion virus mutate themselves)... using as key for example your voice

edit: explanation

Re: There are no secure smartphones

#53
post #27

How about those http://www.cryptophone.de/en/company/news/gsmk-introduces-ne... phones? Is a "baseband firewall" just a gimmick?

It's basically (the older Samsung models) a Stingray detector, plus will shut down the device if activity is detected in the baseband CPU while the application CPU is dormant meaning shenanigans like SMS 'stealth' spamming is going on or evil OTA update.

You can always walk around with a portable hotspot and leave the phone on airplane mode. Only use textsecure/signal and download a free software reversed clone of Google services app to use GCM. If going to all this trouble to avoid targeted spying probably easier to just buy a chromebook with RockChip instead and use OTR or Signal whenever it comes out with desktop client (if not already, I haven't kept up with their current status of porting).

Re: There are no secure smartphones

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LTE is basically VoIP, a 180° change from the monstrosity of 3G, although the providers still manage to fail spectacularly at it. https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7502-dissecting_volte

LTE is a protocol/standard with more efficient methodology/tech right? -- my main issue was the involvement that certain agencies have with the basebands put into mobile phones and the resistance that people trying to develop completely open-source basebands encounter. LTE doesn't seem like a solution to this problem, it sounds like just a more efficient baseband. Even if it's easier to reverse engineer, use of it mi…

LTE, when compared to 3G, drops a lot of complexity and basically defines a data link for IP to flow in. Telephony services are then implemented via IP.

Of course the transmission itself is still as proprietary and filled with regulations as all GSM standards; I just noted that it should be easier to somehow "sandbox" the communication via LTE now than with older technologies.

It's still not the solution and I'm fully aware of it.

Re: There are no secure smartphones

#55
Semi-related: I feel like there should be an open source dumbphone project. Smartphones have a lot of bells and whistles with a large attack area but many people just want to make calls. Sure this wouldn't fix the baseband issue, but it seems the safest way to ensure isolation between personal information and potentially hostile cellular blobs is to never put the information on the device in the first place. A small, open, dialer-only yet potentially extensible cellular platform would be really welcome, I think. Maybe something like this [1] using the rpi zero as a base with some 3d printed cases, reverse engineer what you can otherwise. Replicant is a noble project, but chasing android versions, screen sizes, video codecs, proprietary hardware locks etc is an uphill battle and kind of a distraction IMHO.

[1] https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/piphone-home-made-raspberry...

edit: typo

Re: There are no secure smartphones

#56

Why is it that the baseband has full access to main memory?

Because most chips and peripherals that work at a decently high speed on any computer use DMA. A parallel port on a computer, a thunderbolt connector, Ethernet cards, etc all use DMA for similar desires to speed up communication, and all can have the potential to be attacked. In order for a phone to give decent performance, DMA becomes more and more of a necessity.

Re: There are no secure smartphones

#57
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand the author, the implication is that the baseband firmware is closed source. So, it's possible that Google/Apple have done an audit. But, in my experience, and the author's suggestion that's unlikely to have happened.

I belive he is saying that the baseband code is closed source even to google and apple. Thats where much of he danager lies, it has exterordinary levels of access to tne device and there is no accountability for its security.

I think the author is radically oversimplifying the access the baseband has, based on the erroneous notion that the baseband in a phone design is connected in the same fashion as a peripheral is in a PC design --- hence the "IOMMU" bit.

Re: There are no secure smartphones

#58
post #22
post #4

It's good to draw attention on baseband processors, but there are technical assertions in this post that are probably not accurate (lack of auditing and the notion that you can assess the security of a whole phone system by whether or not there's an IOMMU). The systems security of modern phones is surprisingly complex. Google and Apple both care very deeply about these problems, and both have extremely capable engine…

The team behind Replicant reported that they found a baseband backdoor in Samsung Galaxies[0][1]. I think it's perfectly fine to extrapolate from that that you probably shouldn't trust the baseband, even if Google and Apple are looking into it. Until they have a concrete solution shipped, all the in-the-closet work on the problem is meaningless. 0: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/replicant-developers-fin... 1: ht…

I don't think you should trust the baseband.

My objection is with the idea that you can look at a design, not see an IOMMU, and extrapolate from that the notion that the baseband has full access to the memory of the other chips in the design.

That's a reasonable assumption in a PC design. There may have been a point, for some phones, where it was a valid assumption for phones. It's not with a modern phone design.

Re: There are no secure smartphones

#59
post #3

The folks at http://neo900.org/ are well aware of this and that phone is designed accordingly (details at http://neo900.org/faq#privacy ). Hype-driven products like BlackPhone misrepresent their devices as being perfectly secure when this significant attack vector is completely unmitigated. On the Neo900, the modem is connected via USB (bus; there is no physical connector) which means it doesn't have DMA. There is no…

There just aren't the resources, hardware and information wise, you need. RF engineers don't seem to share the drive for free and open source technology that has been the common theme with software. As a result, we just recently got cheap, widely accessible SDRs, and even they only came about through more or less an accident. And their performance renders them pretty much useless for even just GSM. Now serious SDRs l…

The SIM in 3G isn't really much like a DRM thingy, apart from containing a key; it's more like a securid keyfob. The only interesting thing it does (apart from storing constants like its serial number and variables like your phone book and text messages) is to generate authentication responses (to prove to the network that you have it) and derive session keys (so your phone can encrypt and authenticate what it sends over the air).

All the interfaces to this are open: the wire protocol to the SIM and the over-the-air protocols for authentication and security (what a phone needs to do) are specified completely by freely available 3GPP/ETSI specs.

The details of how the SIM computes the derived keys and authentication response are a black box. 3GPP suggests a couple of sample algorithm sets, but there's no way to know whether the card did that unless you have the secret key (shared between the card and a box deep inside the carrier's network).

However, the phone just passes the authentication-request parameters in an authenticate command to the card, passes the result of that in an authentication-response message back to the network, and obtains integrity and ciphering keys (for GSM) from a couple of files on the card (UMTS/LTE use some keys derived from these, but again, it's documented).

An alternative, used in some older US specs like late AMPS, CDMA, and (EIA-136) TDMA is to store the secrets in the phone, generally at manufacturing time. This means that there's no real boundary between the carrier's authentication widget and "your" phone.

Much better to have the identity contained in a SIM that belongs to the carrier, that your phone talks to at arm's length.

Java seems to be for applications other than plain (U)SIM like prepaid account management. The card can ask the phone to add a menu to its interface, show messages, collect inputs, and other things. Maybe all plain USIM apps are written in java these days instead of having a masked ROM like they probably used to.

Re: There are no secure smartphones

#60
That's right. Focus on the baseband is kind of the new fad in mainstream ITSEC. These problems are long-known in high-assurance as the cert requires all things that can compute, store, or do I/O to be assessed. The reason is that, historically, these were all where attacks came in. I'm pretty tired but I can do at least a few points here.

1. Software. The phones run complex, low-assurance software in unsafe language and inherently-insecure architecture. A stream of attacks and leaks came out of these. The model for high-assurance was either physical separation with trusted chip mediating or separation kernels + user-mode virtualization of Android, etc so security-critical stuff ran outside that. There was strong mediation of inter-partition communications.

2. Firmware of any chip in the system, esp boot firmware. These were privileged, often thrown together even more, and might survive reinstall of other components.

3. Baseband standards. Security engineer Clive Robinson detailed many times of Schneier's blog the long history between intelligence services (mainly British) and carriers, with the former wielding influence on standards. Some aspects of cellular stacks were straight designed to facilitate their activities. On top of that, the baseband would have to be certified against such requirements and this allowed extra leverage given lost sales if no certification.

4. Baseband software. This is the one you hear about most. They hack baseband software, then hack your phone with it.

5. Baseband hardware. One can disguise a flaw here as debugging stuff left over or whatever. Additionally, baseband has RF capabilities that we predicted could be used in TEMPEST-style attacks on other chips. Not sure if that has happened yet.

6. Main SOC is complex without much security. It might be subverted or attacked. With subversion, it might just be a low-quality counterfeit. Additionally, MMU or IOMMU might fail due to errata. Old MULTICS evaluation showed sometimes one can just keep accessing stuff all day waiting for a logic or timing-related failure to allow access. They got in. More complex stuff might have similar weaknesses. I know Intel does and fights efforts to get specifics.

7. Mixed-signal design ends up in a lot of modern stuff, including mobile SOC's. Another hardware guru that taught me ASIC issues said he'd split his security functions (or trade secrets) between digital and analog so the analog effects were critical for operation. Slowed reverse engineering because their digital customers didn't even see the analog circuits with digital tools nor could understand them. He regularly encountered malicious or at least deceptive behavior in 3rd party I.P. that similarly used mixed-signal tricks. I've speculated before on putting a backdoor in the analog circuits modulating the power that enhances power analysis attacks. Lots of potential for mixed-signal attacks that are little explored.

8. Peripheral hardware is subverted, counterfeit, or has similar problems as above. Look at a smartphone breakdown sometime to be amazed at how many chips are in it. Analog circuitry and RF schemes as well.

9. EMSEC. The phone itself is often an antenna from my understanding. There's passive and active EMSEC attacks that can extract keys, etc. Now, you might say "Might as well record audio if they're that close." Nah, they get the master secret and they have everything in many designs. EMSEC issues here were serious in the past: old STU-III's were considered compromised (master leaked) if certain cellphones got within like 20 ft of them because cell signals forced secrets to leak. Can't know how much of this problem has gotten better or worse with modern designs.

10. Remote update. If your stack supports it, then this is an obvious attack vector if carrier is malicious or compelled to be.

11. Apps themselves if store review, permission model, and/or architecture is weak. Debatable how so except for architecture: definitely weak. Again, better designs in niche markets used separation kernels with apps split between untrusted stuff (incl GUI) in OS and security part outside OS. Would require extra infrastructure and tooling for mainstream stuff, though, plus adoption by providers. I'm not really seeing either in mainstream providers. ;)

That's just off the top of my head from prior work trying to secure mobile or in hardware. My mobile solution, developed quite some time ago, fit in a suitcase due to the physical separation and interface requirements. My last attempt to put it in a phone still needed a trusted keyboard & enough chips that I designed (not implemented) it based on Nokia 9000 Communicator. Something w/ modern functions, form-factor, and deals with above? Good luck...

All smartphones are insecure. Even the secure ones. I've seen good ideas and proposals but no secure[ish] design is implemented outside maybe Type 1 stuff like Sectera Edge. Even it cheats that I can tell with physical separation and robust firmware. It's also huge thanks to EMSEC & milspec. A secure phone will look more like that or the Nokia. You see a slim little Blackphone, iPhone, or whatever offered to you? Point at a random stranger and suggest they might be the sucker the sales rep was looking for.

Don't trust any of them. Ditch your mobile or make sure battery is removable. Don't have anything mobile-enabled in your PC. Just avoid wireless in general unless its infrared. Even then it needs to be off by default.

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