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Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold

nytimes.com

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Re: Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold

#111

Post by jauer »

mattbee wrote: post #82
mattbee wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nest comes in two parts - the "smart" bit with the USB charger & battery & wifi, and the Heat Link - the actual radio control for your boiler. The Heat Link has a big button on which lets you turn the heating on and off, overriding what the Nest is telling it. That's not as economical as a regular thermostat, but it means you won't freeze: https://nest.com/uk/support/article/How-do-I-turn-the-heat-o...

Oh, OK, you don't have that in the US apparently. Why's it necessary?

US thermostats usually use low-voltage wiring for signalling to the furnace or boiler. We usually only see line/mains voltage thermostats (that work by limiting current supplied to a electric heater) in cheap apartments. https://nest.com/support/article/How-can-I-tell-if-my-curren...

The US version won't work with line voltage systems. It looks like the UK version only works with line voltage systems.

This also explains why in the US changing a thermostat is something pretty much anyone can do but the UK version requires a Nest Pro to hook up.

Nest US: "It's easy to install the Nest Thermostat. Everything you need comes in the box"

Nest UK: "A Nest Pro installer should install your Nest Thermostat. They will identify cables from the boiler, zone valve or junction box to connect to the Heat Link."

Re: Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold

#112

Post by epistasis »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #41
atom_enger wrote: post #31

We have two nest thermostats installed at work. I rotate the WiFi keys for our APs quarterly and these things are the biggest pain in the ass to reconnect to the WiFi. The furnace turns off almost immediately after changing the WiFi key once the Nest loses connectivity. At first I thought it was coincidence but now that I rotate on a strict schedule it's a joke in our office. However, what's not a joke is what happen…

Really? The Nest Thermostat should still be able to control your heaters even without internet. https://nest.com/support/article/Do-I-need-Wi-Fi-to-use-Nest

>“We had a bug that was introduced in the software update that didn’t show up for about two weeks,” Mr. Rogers said apologetically. In January, devices went offline, and “that’s when things started to heat up.”

Re: Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold

#113

Post by jack-r-abbit »

epistasis wrote: post #112
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? The Nest Thermostat should still be able to control your heaters even without internet. https://nest.com/support/article/Do-I-need-Wi-Fi-to-use-Nest

>“We had a bug that was introduced in the software update that didn’t show up for about two weeks,” Mr. Rogers said apologetically. In January, devices went offline, and “that’s when things started to heat up.”

I don't think "offline" in this context means that the problem was because the device couldn't connect to the internet. It sounds like the bug drained the battery which prevented it from functioning.

Re: Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold

#114

Post by nradov »

jedberg wrote: post #80
atom_enger wrote: post #31

We have two nest thermostats installed at work. I rotate the WiFi keys for our APs quarterly and these things are the biggest pain in the ass to reconnect to the WiFi. The furnace turns off almost immediately after changing the WiFi key once the Nest loses connectivity. At first I thought it was coincidence but now that I rotate on a strict schedule it's a joke in our office. However, what's not a joke is what happen…

> However, what's not a joke is what happens when the internet goes down. So does our heat. As a couple of other folks have noted, that's not normal. You might want to get on tech support with them. My Nest just keeps running its last program when it looses internet.

Hilarious. A residential thermostat that needs tech support. Only in the Silicon Valley echo chamber can that seem like a good idea. It reminds me of the old engineering saying: "If it's not broken it doesn't have enough features yet."

Re: Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold

#115

Post by [deleted] »

jedberg wrote: post #80
atom_enger wrote: post #31

We have two nest thermostats installed at work. I rotate the WiFi keys for our APs quarterly and these things are the biggest pain in the ass to reconnect to the WiFi. The furnace turns off almost immediately after changing the WiFi key once the Nest loses connectivity. At first I thought it was coincidence but now that I rotate on a strict schedule it's a joke in our office. However, what's not a joke is what happen…

> However, what's not a joke is what happens when the internet goes down. So does our heat. As a couple of other folks have noted, that's not normal. You might want to get on tech support with them. My Nest just keeps running its last program when it looses internet.

[deleted]

Re: Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold

#116

Post by derekp7 »

Naritai wrote: post #99
sparky_z wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't seem fair. What's a company supposed to do in that situation? Just close up shop? Makes me wonder if it would be possible to intentionally drive a company out of business by convincing a bunch of people to use their products incorrectly.

This is where legal concepts (in the US) such as 'reasonable person' come into play. Courts usually hold that any use of a product that a 'reasonable person' would do is an acceptable use (regardless of what the instructions say - a reasonable person, it would seem, doesn't read the instructions :P). However, a company doesn't need to be held responsible for an un-reasonable use. In this case, would courts find that…

So this would be similar to where a lawn more is designed to cut grass. And a reasonable person would assume that it can also cut weeds that are growing in the lawn. But it isn't reasonable to assume that you could pick it up in the air and use it as a hedge trimmer.

Re: Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold

#117

Post by greenyoda »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #66
djcapelis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people derive value from it. It's that simple. You don't have to, and that's fine, but having the temperature settings for the house happen on a schedule that makes sense and depends on the time and day of the week can be quite useful. And having the ability to change the temperature from my bed is nice too.

Sure, but we've had that level of automation for decades. My Honeywell programmable thermostat has time/day scheduling with several phases per day, and different phases for the weekend. It runs off a 9V battery and I can't tell you how long the battery lasts but I _can_ tell you that it's at least 15 years.

It would be pretty rare for a 9V battery to last for 15 years of continuous operation. In my thermostat, which has features similar to yours, the battery is just for backup in case the power goes out, and the thermostat normally runs off the 24V power from the furnace circuit (it works fine if you remove the battery). It's possible that your thermostat works the same way and your battery has been dead for many years.

Re: Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold

#118

Post by lololomg »

sparky_z wrote: post #34
rubidium wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out even if a company markets its products with big bold "not for diagnostic/medical use", and its customers use the products for diagnostic or medical use, the company can still be on the hook. It depends on a number of things, not least of which is the company's knowledge of the actual use of their devices.

That doesn't seem fair. What's a company supposed to do in that situation? Just close up shop? Makes me wonder if it would be possible to intentionally drive a company out of business by convincing a bunch of people to use their products incorrectly.

If you sell a device that monitors heart rates, and that device doesn't properly monitor heart rates... then you need to fix it or stop making it. I don't see why that is unfair?

If I buy a desk lamp and it doesn't work reliably then you sold me a lemon and I want my money back. It doesn't matter why I need light on my desk.

Re: Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold

#119

Post by rsync »

atom_enger wrote: post #31

We have two nest thermostats installed at work. I rotate the WiFi keys for our APs quarterly and these things are the biggest pain in the ass to reconnect to the WiFi. The furnace turns off almost immediately after changing the WiFi key once the Nest loses connectivity. At first I thought it was coincidence but now that I rotate on a strict schedule it's a joke in our office. However, what's not a joke is what happen…

"However, what's not a joke is what happens when the internet goes down. So does our heat."

Predictable. Avoidable. Pitiful.

Re: Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold

#120

Post by feld »

I had a Nest and sold it to my brother after Google bought them and it was clear they were never going to release the rumored remote sensors. I got an ecobee instead.

The ecobee is much smarter, mostly because of the remote sensors. My house is far more comfortable. It's also nice that ecobee has an API and IFTTT support. It has no issues running normally when the internet goes down. (My internet was down completely the other night and there was -25F windchill. It followed schedule just fine.)

I'm guessing ecobee coming from Canada they know the value of a functional thermostat...

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