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Before I Can Fix This Tractor, We Have to Fix Copyright Law

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Re: Before I Can Fix This Tractor, We Have to Fix Copyright Law

#11

Post by itistoday2 »

itistoday2 wrote: post #10
viraptor wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are always free to withdraw your consent from having your life be ruled by what a handful of people you've never met No, actually you are not free to do that. You can declare it, but it doesn't change anything in practice.

> No, actually you are not free to do that. You can declare it, but it doesn't change anything in practice. Sure you are. People do it all the time.

lol @ HN downvoters who can't handle reality. That's OK, I understand and respect that you've chosen to subject yourself to rules you don't like. Just less whining and complaining, OK?

Re: Before I Can Fix This Tractor, We Have to Fix Copyright Law

#12

Post by Riseed »

itistoday2 wrote: post #4

Look, if as per the article you need an army of lawyers to fix your tractor, that should be your first—no probably 10th—clue that your problem is not copyright law, but the idea that copyright law is something that you need to respect and obey. You are always free to withdraw your consent from having your life be ruled by what a handful of people you've never met (and whose names you don't even know) have decided abo…

I agree to an extent.

Paying fines and/or avoiding jail (within the system) are not free as in beer. Likewise, leaving the country and relocating is also not free (e.g. there's a few to renounce US citizenship).

Whether we're free as in speech to withdraw consent from the social contract (by which I do not mean to speak to its validity or lack thereof) is more of a grey area. As with freedom of speech, the freedom to withdraw from the social contract is not without its (ominous) ramifications. See, e.g. Aaron Swartz.

Re: Before I Can Fix This Tractor, We Have to Fix Copyright Law

#13

Post by itistoday2 »

Riseed wrote: post #12
itistoday2 wrote: post #4

Look, if as per the article you need an army of lawyers to fix your tractor, that should be your first—no probably 10th—clue that your problem is not copyright law, but the idea that copyright law is something that you need to respect and obey. You are always free to withdraw your consent from having your life be ruled by what a handful of people you've never met (and whose names you don't even know) have decided abo…

I agree to an extent. Paying fines and/or avoiding jail (within the system) are not free as in beer . Likewise, leaving the country and relocating is also not free (e.g. there's a few to renounce US citizenship). Whether we're free as in speech to withdraw consent from the social contract (by which I do not mean to speak to its validity or lack thereof) is more of a grey area. As with freedom of speech, the freedom t…

> Paying fines and/or avoiding jail (within the system) are not free as in beer.

Well, in terms of copyright law it really depends. People violate copyright law all the time (see torrents) and vast majority don't pay anything for doing so.

Sometimes people do have to face consequences, but one of the reasons that is so is because of the folks who disagree with and vehemently complain about ridiculous laws that do not represent their views, while simultaneously taking actions to re-enforce the system that gives them those laws (like downvoting comments on HN that remind them they actually do have a voice and a choice in the matter).

Re: Before I Can Fix This Tractor, We Have to Fix Copyright Law

#14

Post by geofft »

itistoday2 wrote: post #4

Look, if as per the article you need an army of lawyers to fix your tractor, that should be your first—no probably 10th—clue that your problem is not copyright law, but the idea that copyright law is something that you need to respect and obey. You are always free to withdraw your consent from having your life be ruled by what a handful of people you've never met (and whose names you don't even know) have decided abo…

My life is markedly better for having those handful of people make those decisions. It is just that in a few cases, like repairing tractors, they get it wrong. That doesn't mean I want them gone, that just means I want them to stop being wrong, or at most I want different people to make those decisions and have that power over my life.

Rejecting the entire concept of having leadership and structure because these particular leaders aren't perfect is like writing in assembly for the rest of your life because C compilers optimize out unexpected things sometimes.

Re: Before I Can Fix This Tractor, We Have to Fix Copyright Law

#15

Post by Riseed »

viraptor wrote: post #9
itistoday2 wrote: post #4

Look, if as per the article you need an army of lawyers to fix your tractor, that should be your first—no probably 10th—clue that your problem is not copyright law, but the idea that copyright law is something that you need to respect and obey. You are always free to withdraw your consent from having your life be ruled by what a handful of people you've never met (and whose names you don't even know) have decided abo…

> You are always free to withdraw your consent from having your life be ruled by what a handful of people you've never met No, actually you are not free to do that. You can declare it, but it doesn't change anything in practice.

Whether it changes anything likely depends how you do it. For example, writing a letter to the editor may not change much, while renouncing citizenship would likely change a lot in practice.

Re: Before I Can Fix This Tractor, We Have to Fix Copyright Law

#16

Post by dangrossman »

jdjb wrote: post #7
dangrossman wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part of the DMCA that lets sites and ISPs host/transmit user uploads without being sued on a daily basis is pretty nice.

Arguably, the only reason you have to worry about the lawsuits is because of stupid IP laws in the first place though.

Is the argument that copyright law was a stupid idea, or that 18th century lawmakers were stupid not to consider the law's impact on the internet?

Re: Before I Can Fix This Tractor, We Have to Fix Copyright Law

#17

Post by itistoday2 »

geofft wrote: post #14
itistoday2 wrote: post #4

Look, if as per the article you need an army of lawyers to fix your tractor, that should be your first—no probably 10th—clue that your problem is not copyright law, but the idea that copyright law is something that you need to respect and obey. You are always free to withdraw your consent from having your life be ruled by what a handful of people you've never met (and whose names you don't even know) have decided abo…

My life is markedly better for having those handful of people make those decisions. It is just that in a few cases, like repairing tractors, they get it wrong. That doesn't mean I want them gone, that just means I want them to stop being wrong, or at most I want different people to make those decisions and have that power over my life. Rejecting the entire concept of having leadership and structure because these part…

> Rejecting the entire concept of having leadership and structure because these particular leaders aren't perfect...

That's not what I'm suggesting at all.

I'm saying pick a structure and leaders that really do represent you. That's a very different thing from voting for pre-selected candidates whom you've never met and don't interact with, and then crossing your fingers.

Re: Before I Can Fix This Tractor, We Have to Fix Copyright Law

#18

Post by viraptor »

Riseed wrote: post #15
viraptor wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are always free to withdraw your consent from having your life be ruled by what a handful of people you've never met No, actually you are not free to do that. You can declare it, but it doesn't change anything in practice.

Whether it changes anything likely depends how you do it. For example, writing a letter to the editor may not change much, while renouncing citizenship would likely change a lot in practice.

But to renounce your citizenship you have to have another place to live. Unless you create your own country, or go meet the entire government, you're still "ruled by what a handful of people you've never met".

Re: Before I Can Fix This Tractor, We Have to Fix Copyright Law

#20

Post by itistoday2 »

viraptor wrote: post #18
Riseed wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether it changes anything likely depends how you do it. For example, writing a letter to the editor may not change much, while renouncing citizenship would likely change a lot in practice.

But to renounce your citizenship you have to have another place to live. Unless you create your own country, or go meet the entire government, you're still "ruled by what a handful of people you've never met".

So go ahead and create your own country. You won't be the first (nor the last) to have done so.
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