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Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

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Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#11

Post by Nutmog »

StLCylone wrote: post #7

So should you since that device you are reading this on was most likely sourced there. Likely sourced by underpaid workers in virtual enslavement to Foxconn or some other component manufacturer. Not to mention living in a toxic environment so we can all have our electronic toys.

Do you have a reference for "virtual enslavement" to Foxconn? Last I heard, people were lining up to get jobs there and with enough working hours, the pay was higher than what a university graduate makes. If you call paying people so much they don't want to leave "enslavement" then perhaps that's right, but it also means it's not really bad.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#12

Post by lukedev »

StLCylone wrote: post #7

So should you since that device you are reading this on was most likely sourced there. Likely sourced by underpaid workers in virtual enslavement to Foxconn or some other component manufacturer. Not to mention living in a toxic environment so we can all have our electronic toys.

Purpose built tech provided to the Chinese government used to assist tracking, detainment and torture of individuals.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#13

Post by mikerichards »

Nutmog wrote: post #9

While I do think human rights are a good idea, the focus seems to be carefully selected to as to make "bad" countries look bad and western countries look good. For the US, it's OK to kill people as long as you do it a bit randomly in a war instead of being too targeted, or as long as you do it to foreigners not your own citizens and you try to kill them quickly instead of using deliberate torture. If you do use tortu…

It's also OK to kill them in the name of economic progress by allowing cars to drive at speeds which regularly cause death.

That's a very bizarre statement, but very telling of why you would defend authoritarian regimes.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#14

Post by DiabloD3 »

mikerichards wrote: post #13
Nutmog wrote: post #9

While I do think human rights are a good idea, the focus seems to be carefully selected to as to make "bad" countries look bad and western countries look good. For the US, it's OK to kill people as long as you do it a bit randomly in a war instead of being too targeted, or as long as you do it to foreigners not your own citizens and you try to kill them quickly instead of using deliberate torture. If you do use tortu…

It's also OK to kill them in the name of economic progress by allowing cars to drive at speeds which regularly cause death. That's a very bizarre statement, but very telling of why you would defend authoritarian regimes.

It also completely ignores the fact that local and state governments in the US regularly try to reduce speed limits which often leads to higher accident and fatality rates.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#15

Post by DiabloD3 »

mikerichards wrote: post #13
Nutmog wrote: post #9

While I do think human rights are a good idea, the focus seems to be carefully selected to as to make "bad" countries look bad and western countries look good. For the US, it's OK to kill people as long as you do it a bit randomly in a war instead of being too targeted, or as long as you do it to foreigners not your own citizens and you try to kill them quickly instead of using deliberate torture. If you do use tortu…

It's also OK to kill them in the name of economic progress by allowing cars to drive at speeds which regularly cause death. That's a very bizarre statement, but very telling of why you would defend authoritarian regimes.

It also completely ignores the fact that local and state governments in the US regularly try to reduce speed limits which often leads to higher accident and fatality rates.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#16

Post by Nutmog »

mikerichards wrote: post #13
Nutmog wrote: post #9

While I do think human rights are a good idea, the focus seems to be carefully selected to as to make "bad" countries look bad and western countries look good. For the US, it's OK to kill people as long as you do it a bit randomly in a war instead of being too targeted, or as long as you do it to foreigners not your own citizens and you try to kill them quickly instead of using deliberate torture. If you do use tortu…

It's also OK to kill them in the name of economic progress by allowing cars to drive at speeds which regularly cause death. That's a very bizarre statement, but very telling of why you would defend authoritarian regimes.

I'm just exploring other things that we seem to take for granted despite them being terrible. Of course China has that too but it's a huge "unexotic" problem in most countries.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#17

Post by frozenport »

delinka wrote: post #4

Governments of the world have to care about human rights abuses before someone with teeth can prosecute. I sincerely doubt anyone in power (elected, appointed, hired) in any government cares at all about random humans at distance. Especially if caring would affect their own quality of life.

Its how you sell it, we could claim that it Cisco Systems is selling technology to a hostile government with the aim of subverting American hegemony. Which FYI, is exactly what it did.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#18

Post by tim333 »

It seems clear Cisco knew their systems were going to be used against Falun Gong. Leaked Cisco presentation:

"Cisco Confidential 57 © 2002, Cisco Systems

The Golden Shield Project:

Public Network Information Security Monitor System

• Stop the network-related crimes

• Guarantee the security and services of public network

• Combat “Falun Gong” evil religion and other hostiles

[Note: Statement of Government goals from speech government offical Li Runsen]"

Then again it's going to be hard to show legally they were doing much more than helping China enforce it's laws. Still at least the embarrassment factor may put companies off from getting involved in this stuff.

I hope the EFF case makes them release documents related to it.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#19

Post by voronoff »

delinka wrote: post #4

Governments of the world have to care about human rights abuses before someone with teeth can prosecute. I sincerely doubt anyone in power (elected, appointed, hired) in any government cares at all about random humans at distance. Especially if caring would affect their own quality of life.

That's an absurd proposition. Even if you have an incredibly cynical view of humanity, it's extremely unlikely to be unable to find someone in a government with power who holds any reasonable common position of the general populace.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#20

Post by iofj »

frozenport wrote: post #17
delinka wrote: post #4

Governments of the world have to care about human rights abuses before someone with teeth can prosecute. I sincerely doubt anyone in power (elected, appointed, hired) in any government cares at all about random humans at distance. Especially if caring would affect their own quality of life.

Its how you sell it, we could claim that it Cisco Systems is selling technology to a hostile government with the aim of subverting American hegemony. Which FYI, is exactly what it did.

You forget they probably put in a few NSA chips and "bugs" before shipping it. So ...
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