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Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

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Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#201

Post by clintonb »

nitrogen wrote: post #136
raldi wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't implicitly or explicitly condoned. MIT had detected what Aaron was doing, and deployed countermeasures. Aaron defeated those countermeasures; MIT deployed tougher ones, and Aaron escalated again by breaking into the server closet and patching his laptop directly into the network switch, knowing it was the only way to bypass the considerable efforts MIT was making to protect itself. This was no, "Oops, I d…

Are you basing this on statements from MIT, from the government, from the indictment...? I ask because, though I've never been near MIT, everything I read about it suggests that every one of these steps is seen as part of the game expected to be played by a few curious students now and then.

I'm an MIT alum. There is no "game" being played. If a student is violating certain terms of service (e.g. downloading all of JSTOR) he/she would normally be told to stop, and that's the end of it. You do it again, and you might get another warning. Alternatively, you might find yourself in front of a dean or without network privileges.

Breaking into a closet, and connecting your hardware gets you expelled. Regardless of the locked state of the door, entering a closet to which you do not have explicit access is breaking into said closet.

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#202

Post by mason240 »

mindslight wrote: post #96
mason240 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You stepping in front of my car, going through my windshield, and hurting me, is not victimless.

This is exactly the type of knee-jerk reaction that perpetuates the status quo of immoral laws. In your scenario, there is a civil case for the accident. There can still be a criminal sanction if a pedestrian fails to avoid vehicles (that are obeying traffic laws). This does not change my example, which is an empty street.

You must also be against drunk driving laws, and just about every law.

Waiting until after dangerous behavior causes damages, injury, or even death to to happen, then hiring a lawyer to sue to damages is terrible to way to organize society.

It benefits the privileged on both sides and monetary payouts do not bring back dead people or cure lingering injures.

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#203

Post by Lawtonfogle »

mahranch wrote: post #32
jason_slack wrote: post #15

I just watched "The Internets Own Boy" again last night. It amazes me what our justice system can do to people and not be held responsible. Had I done the same thing to Aaron, I'd have been given lethal injection by now.

> It amazes me what our justice system can do to people and not be held responsible. Just to play devil's advocate here (and I understand this goes against prevailing opinion), but he did break the law. That much isn't in dispute, they had a video of him entering the MIT network closet. And he didn't commit misdemeanors, he committed a half dozen felonies (actually more, but the prosecution dropped a few of them). Th…

>but he did break the law

Those here are well enough in the know to realize that the law is often twisted to serve corrupt ends and thus any question of law breaking should also be met with a consideration of the morality and ethics of the law and of the enforcement of the law.

>The prosecution was offering a meager 6 months in a low-security prison (for multiple felonies, that's peanuts) for his crimes but he rejected the offer (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#Arrest_and_prosec...).

Or isomorphically, they were willing to add decades to his sentence for insisting to his right to a trial.

>They were going to go extremely light on him but it was he who chose to fight.

How dare he exercise his rights!

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#204

Post by Lawtonfogle »

an_account wrote: post #51
wolfgke wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just to play devil's advocate here (and I understand this goes against prevailing opinion), but he did break the law. Aaron himself said "There is no justice in following unjust laws." > https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamj... I even go further and say that you can't be good and lawful at the same time - at least not in any currently existing system of laws.

Is the right course of action to break "unjust" laws, or to just fight to change them? This is an opinion, but I argue that every person has a different definition of what is "just", and if everyone followed their definition of "just", than our legal system would break down. Society functions on a set of laws, but those laws can change for the better.

The US was founded after war. That is going far above and beyond merely breaking unjust laws. Working within the system is preferable as long as it remains an option, but for many it has closed off. So they switch to breaking unjust laws instead. Be wary of what follows if that option is removed.

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#205

Post by ericd »

clintonb wrote: post #201
nitrogen wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you basing this on statements from MIT, from the government, from the indictment...? I ask because, though I've never been near MIT, everything I read about it suggests that every one of these steps is seen as part of the game expected to be played by a few curious students now and then.

I'm an MIT alum. There is no "game" being played. If a student is violating certain terms of service (e.g. downloading all of JSTOR) he/she would normally be told to stop, and that's the end of it. You do it again, and you might get another warning. Alternatively, you might find yourself in front of a dean or without network privileges. Breaking into a closet, and connecting your hardware gets you expelled. Regardles…

I sincerely doubt it gets you expelled as long as you're not damaging anything, which I wouldn't count connecting a piece of equipment as doing. Breaking into places locked and otherwise is part of the core of MIT's culture. Did you never go roof and tunnel hacking?

That said, I'm not as familiar as I should be with what MIT tried to do to get Aaron to stop, and whether he knew that they had deployed those because of what he did.

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#206

Post by dang »

marincounty wrote: post #155

I don't mind argumentative. I look back on the people who changed a bad/given situation, and they raised that hand. The true bad asses walked, or got even. I have a question about Aaron Schwartz. Would he even be on Hacker News? Would he put up with the political correctness. Would he put up with "arse kissing"? Would he put up with a moderator who emailed him? I say this in light of an email I received from a modera…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10884654 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#209

Post by aws_ls »

briandear wrote: post #164
cinquemb wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I visit MIT to work with some researchers there I always manage to sneak in an Aaron reference and love watching their faces. People can justify what happened by citing that he broke the Law™, but this is still a sore thing for many on the campus, that I think those who want to, shouldn't miss the beat to rub salt in MIT's wounds, especially because of the history around hacking at MIT. People won't think tw…

How professional of you.

Your use of professional reminds me why I hate such cliche words. We are remembering a soul, whom we all feel guilty of letting down in our own ways. I am actually delighted that the GP, displays their humanity and caring, even when does not need to. Professionalism be damned, quirks and caring makes us human.

Edit: And why people downvoted the GP? Are they passing their judgement on GP's raising the topic with MIT people they interact with. Please note GP is just sharing it, in an after-the-act relevant discussion.

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