Interviews are for unknown quantities and cannon fodder but also for social skills. You need a network to avoid being gamified but, more than that, you need a no-nonsense attitude to manipulate social exchanges to your advantage.
Ask HN: What do you do if you can't pass technical interviews?
31–40 of 41 posts
Re: Ask HN: What do you do if you can't pass technical interviews?
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a whiteboard. I have been studying. I have been practising. But over and over I make a few tiny errors in front of an audience and sink my chances. I think I must just be broken.
Then practice more rigorously. Do it in front of friends and film yourself.
This is especially hard to do if you're in a more senior position and tend to take more interest in solving better problems than small algorithms problems.
Re: Ask HN: What do you do if you can't pass technical interviews?
#33Have you looked at state agencies or consulting companies. The state doesn't pay as much up front but has good benefits and continuous pay raises. Consulting companies are good because they pay you less, train you then throw you at a client at full rates and expect you to "wow" the client. which as far as I can tell means work long "free" hours until you "catch up." But you getting paid and usually get to work at a lot of different companies.
Re: Ask HN: What do you do if you can't pass technical interviews?
#34As someone who has done hiring, when someone says that it's a tough decision, it is. They probably would have hired you if the circumstances were different, like if they had a lot more money or if the other candidates were much worse. Most likely you nearly nailed it. Keep trying!
Maybe you should reconsider how you apply.
Your goal should be convincing your employer that you're either a great coder or have the potential to be a superstar coder.
I have interviewed for a lot of jobs, and didn't require a technical interview for any of them. You don't have to win the interview!
I first got over it with a very strong recommendation and a top degree. They gave me a technical test and I convinced them that they should just offer me 3 months probation at half salary, because that would be a better test.
Later on by showcasing projects and convincing the employer that I was the expert. An interview would be like "Have you used Fragments?" and I'd just hit them back with every pro and con and horror stories of using Fragments. Then they give an offer without further tests.
You should think of yourself as a hacker, trying to get past the door. Instead of bringing every kind of key with you, be creative and see if you can go through the windows.
Do whatever it takes to avoid those whiteboard interviews! Convince them you're the right person before you get to that stage!
However, do remember that in order to convince others that you're a great coder, you have to convince yourself. Code can be a very emotional thing, like writing. If you don't believe in yourself, you may end up worse at it.
Re: Ask HN: What do you do if you can't pass technical interviews?
#35Have you looked at state agencies or consulting companies. The state doesn't pay as much up front but has good benefits and continuous pay raises. Consulting companies are good because they pay you less, train you then throw you at a client at full rates and expect you to "wow" the client. which as far as I can tell means work long "free" hours until you "catch up." But you getting paid and usually get to work at a l…
Just a warning about the state: even in the best of circumstances, you will not be working with the latest and greatest tech. You are often legally prohibited from just playing around with something new to see if it will work. The team segregation alone will make you run for the hills if you're used to startup life.
A few examples of my current environment (which I love, I'm a private-sector employee currently contracted to a state government agency, but some here would absolutely hate it):
- The entire stack is .Net. I like .Net so this is fine for me but some people would hate this.
- New code is regularly written in VB. We are free to use C# when we want, but we can't use F# (nobody at the state knows it), and there are several state developers who don't know C# and refuse to learn it to the point of outright hostility.
- New code is also written in Fortran because reasons. The floor I'm on alone probably has about $550k/yr in payroll dedicated solely to maintaining existing mainframe applications.
- No write access to the test db schema. Have a change that requires a database schema change? Send it over to the DBAs and it'll show up in a day or three. This is not just because I'm a contractor, the DBAs are the only ones with this access.
- 8 hours (including lunch) and out, on the dot. This is great for work-life balance, but when everyone else works 7-3 (or earlier) the office is a ghost town for several hours every day.
- The level of bureaucracy is staggering. I mean it regularly gets to the point where it seems like a caricature. Make something ridiculous up and it's probably happened here.
Some people thrive in this environment - it hasn't bothered me the last few years, but I know a lot of HN's target audience would not be caught dead working for a state agency.
And everything you said regarding consulting companies is spot on in my experience :)
Re: Ask HN: What do you do if you can't pass technical interviews?
#36Here's what I've done throughout my 35+ year career.
1. I keep my resumes on line (I like to get lots of emails)
2. I love to go to interviews (even if I'm not looking for a job) It's good practice.
3. I approach the problem solving using pseudo code. That way I can offer abstract reasons for perceived errors.
4. The ultimate is to get the interviewer to solve the problem for you.
Re: Ask HN: What do you do if you can't pass technical interviews?
#37Here's what I've done throughout my 35+ year career.
1. I keep my resumes on line (I like to get lots of emails)
2. I love to go to interviews (even if I'm not looking for a job) It's good practice.
3. I approach the problem solving using pseudo code. That way I can offer abstract reasons for perceived errors.
4. The ultimate is to get the interviewer to solve the problem for you.
Re: Ask HN: What do you do if you can't pass technical interviews?
#38If you have a CS degree, but not that much development experience, try aiming for positions which are open for new grads or people with similar experience. It sounds like you're trying out for more senior development positions. You're not being dismissed out of hand, but they are relying on the white-boarding.
As someone who is graduating this semester, those kinds of questions are very commonly asked to recent grads and for junior positions. In fact it would make less sense to ask a senior programmer whiteboard questions.
That is true, but you aren't going to be grilled on it as strictly if you were an experienced developer.
We in the industry know that CS programs don't consistently crank out people with superb coding skills. Those people are almost always "self-made" programmers (who got their CS degrees too).
> In fact it would make less sense to ask a senior programmer whiteboard questions.
Indeed, but he or she isn't one, right?
Look at some of the comments: There was also a fair amount of confusion on the out of bounds issue, which we feel was the type of bug that would have been caught faster by a more experienced engineer.
Basically the message is we are looking for a more experienced engineer for this position and not you suck at white-boarding, go away!
But they know about the level of experience from the resume. So why bother interviewing at all? Probably they are somewhat willing to overlook lack of documented experience, in case a "superstar" programmer shows up. You know, one of those who has been programming since age six, and whose CS degree is just a paper with a stamp so their resume isn't tossed aside.
(Or it could just be a string of bad luck, or the way the job market is in the area. Maybe everyone is grilling new grads to find superstar programmers.)
Re: Ask HN: What do you do if you can't pass technical interviews?
#39Here's some advice. Avoid companies with stupid hiring policies. It seems that these guys want you to code like they do, and they'll eventually find someone "close enough" - eventually. After wasting many man hours of interview time. You don't want to work with these guys. You want to find a company that appreciates you for the developer you are, which appears to be someone who knows his own limitations and has ways…
> Avoid companies with stupid hiring policies.
Agree with this. Sounds ridiculous. What other profession has to prove their skills in such a way in a job interview?
Re: Ask HN: What do you do if you can't pass technical interviews?
#40>> Should I just burn my CS degree ?
Neah !! Jobs are not about the degree only, still having a degree always adds up. Try half a dozen other companies. This response is typical of small size startup who instead of inviting you for a drink invite you to an interview with their two person team. I was rejected by three companies (2+ engineers) before the present company (15+ engineers) made me an offer. It wasn't even a coding interview at all, the Sr. Engineer wanted to have a conversation for a couple of minutes.