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Peach’s Most Interesting Feature, the Hybrid Command Line

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Re: Peach’s Most Interesting Feature, the Hybrid Command Line

#51

Post by semi-extrinsic »

tudorw wrote: post #46
noobermin wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a old slashdot flame thread on GUI vs. CLI back in the day, I pointed out that calling CLIs less familiar and less intuitive when compared to GUIs wasn't fair because CLI's do have a very familiar, non-virtual analog: speech. CLI, of course, it just a very specific and rigid language, just like programming languages.

I've worked with many first time users over 20 years and have never witnessed any of them intuitively understand either CLI or GUI, both are artificial, contrived and unique and need to be learnt. I don't essentially see one as a better choice than the other for a new user, maybe in some ways the CLI has less abstractions which can be a help, I've witnessed much confusion over the many many ways you can enact the sam…

"The only intuitive interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned."

(Discussion on who coined this phrase at http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/misc/nipple.html)

Re: Peach’s Most Interesting Feature, the Hybrid Command Line

#52

Post by Gys »

tudorw wrote: post #46
noobermin wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a old slashdot flame thread on GUI vs. CLI back in the day, I pointed out that calling CLIs less familiar and less intuitive when compared to GUIs wasn't fair because CLI's do have a very familiar, non-virtual analog: speech. CLI, of course, it just a very specific and rigid language, just like programming languages.

I've worked with many first time users over 20 years and have never witnessed any of them intuitively understand either CLI or GUI, both are artificial, contrived and unique and need to be learnt. I don't essentially see one as a better choice than the other for a new user, maybe in some ways the CLI has less abstractions which can be a help, I've witnessed much confusion over the many many ways you can enact the sam…

I think 'intuitively' actually means less having to think about all possible options at any moment or stage of an action. If its clear how to accomplish the next step, it is considered intuitive.

GUI are considered more intuitively because options in general are visible as menus and buttons. On a CLI adding parameters to a command can get complicated if you are halfway and forgot if it was '-l' or '-L'.

Re: Peach’s Most Interesting Feature, the Hybrid Command Line

#53

Post by corvus_sapiens »

rcthompson wrote: post #34
munificent wrote: post #20

The idea that command-line applications could have some sort of Renaissance on devices which do not have a keyboard seems completely insane to me.

There's no fundamental reason that command line applications can't work with input from voice recognition.

Nope. However, it is more cumbersome unless tailored to voice. For example, saying "-r" versus "-R" or pronouncing something like "ioctl".

Re: Peach’s Most Interesting Feature, the Hybrid Command Line

#54

Post by notfoss »

Gys wrote: post #52
tudorw wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked with many first time users over 20 years and have never witnessed any of them intuitively understand either CLI or GUI, both are artificial, contrived and unique and need to be learnt. I don't essentially see one as a better choice than the other for a new user, maybe in some ways the CLI has less abstractions which can be a help, I've witnessed much confusion over the many many ways you can enact the sam…

I think 'intuitively' actually means less having to think about all possible options at any moment or stage of an action. If its clear how to accomplish the next step, it is considered intuitive. GUI are considered more intuitively because options in general are visible as menus and buttons. On a CLI adding parameters to a command can get complicated if you are halfway and forgot if it was '-l' or '-L'.

That's why I tell users to always remember the '-h/--help' option ;).

Re: Peach’s Most Interesting Feature, the Hybrid Command Line

#55

Post by themartorana »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #51
tudorw wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked with many first time users over 20 years and have never witnessed any of them intuitively understand either CLI or GUI, both are artificial, contrived and unique and need to be learnt. I don't essentially see one as a better choice than the other for a new user, maybe in some ways the CLI has less abstractions which can be a help, I've witnessed much confusion over the many many ways you can enact the sam…

"The only intuitive interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned." (Discussion on who coined this phrase at http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/misc/nipple.html )

After having our first child 17 months ago and dealing with the headaches of breast feeding and an infant with trouble "latching," I'm no longer confident that even that is totally intuitive...

Edit: ah, his 2001 quote seems to validate my frustrations :)

Re: Peach’s Most Interesting Feature, the Hybrid Command Line

#57

Post by csixty4 »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #24
skciva wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't Meerkat done in by the fact that Twitter launched Periscope around the same time? Twitter cut Meerkat's access to the API at SXSW (mid March), and published Periscope to the iOS App Store in late March. On top of this, I've noticed some celebrities I follow on Twitter using Periscope and advertising it to their feeds, which I wouldn't be surprised to find out is fueled by some form of payment from Twitter. I c…

Why does anyone follow celebrities on Twitter? Does it add any value to your life?

I don't follow a-listers by any stretch, and maybe are why things are much rosier in my part of the world. I seriously miss Nichelle Nichols talking about her garden or her family. Colin Baker and Terry Molloy show the other side of being a sci-fi celebrity - even Doctor Who has to deal with flight delays and wait for the cable installer to show up.

Maybe it's different if you follow Kardashians with social media managers running their Twitter hype machine. But the celebs I've followed are genuinely nice people with interesting lives and passions they want to share.

Just don't tell Colin he should've taken a TARDIS when his rental car is mysteriously cancelled.

Re: Peach’s Most Interesting Feature, the Hybrid Command Line

#59

Post by munificent »

rcthompson wrote: post #34
munificent wrote: post #20

The idea that command-line applications could have some sort of Renaissance on devices which do not have a keyboard seems completely insane to me.

There's no fundamental reason that command line applications can't work with input from voice recognition.

Well, except:

Voice recognition, as far as I know, can't make use-mention distinctions. There's no way to "quote" a voice command. "Siri, tomorrow tell me the result of 'Siri, what is today's date?'"

The key problem with command line applications is they lack discoverability. If you're sitting at a blank screen and a blinking "_", there's no way of knowing which commands are available. To me, this is a big feature of WIMP systems. You can visually scan the menu items.

Auto-complete in CLIs gives you much of that power back. Start typing and see what results start coming up. That's why most input boxes on the web these days—even search engines!—auto-complete as you type.

I can't imagine an equivalent user experience for voice that wouldn't be maddening. "Siri, call m–" "Mom? Want me to call your mom?" "-o" "Oh, you mean MOMA? The museum? Want me to call that?"

Re: Peach’s Most Interesting Feature, the Hybrid Command Line

#60

Post by semi-extrinsic »

themartorana wrote: post #55
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only intuitive interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned." (Discussion on who coined this phrase at http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/misc/nipple.html )

After having our first child 17 months ago and dealing with the headaches of breast feeding and an infant with trouble "latching," I'm no longer confident that even that is totally intuitive... Edit: ah, his 2001 quote seems to validate my frustrations :)

Yeah, our first never figured it out at all, she was bottle fed all the way, but our second (8 months now) was latched on like five minutes after birth.
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