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David Bowie Has Died

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Re: David Bowie Has Died

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's popular in the same way McDonald's or Coca Cola are popular. It's a product of no substance riding massive marketing budgets.

McD's and Coke are popular because people really want what they sell. It's not just a psychological thing, like everyone is a mindless zombie brainwashed by Ronald McDonald. They don't like it because they've been told to like it (if anything, it's the opposite these days), they like it because it's convenient and it has a ton of sugar and other addictive additives in it. People like both convenience and sugar; that'…

People love cocaine too. It doesn't mean you have their best interests at heart in selling it to them. Modern commercial pop music, like junk fast food, is the product of a profit-driven corporation using psychology and focus group research to push your pleasure buttons without actually providing you with any nourishment.

The worst thing about both kinds of products is that they destroy local diversity and teach people to consume things that are worthless at best and actively harmful at their worst.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#292

Simon Pegg tweeted it nicely: If you're sad today, just remember the world is over 4 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.

Simon Pegg tweeted:

A quote attributed to Simon regarding the sad loss of the great David Bowie seems to have originated from tweeter, @JeSuisDean, not Simon.

Nice tweet however.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is communist Russia objectively worse than the crusades or the Catholic inquisition or ISIS? Let's just be honest here and say that human being are capable of pretty cruel things, regardless of being spurned by religion or not. And why is atheism a religion. Isn't its definition a lack of religion?

> Is communist Russia objectively worse than the crusades or the Catholic inquisition or ISIS? In numbers, yes. > Isn't its definition a lack of religion? I thought it was defined by the lack of belief in deities / supernatural powers. I might be wrong.

Even if true, you can't compare the death toll of post industrial WWII and the crusades on numbers alone.

Precisely. A lack of belief.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#294

Though I'm certainly saddened to hear David Bowie has died, I think his death is absolutely off-topic for HN. Yet compare the number of points and comments this thread has with this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10832624 or this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10557793 It seems like HN's content is becoming less and less technical over time and much more political and social, and this thread is a great…

I disagree. More to the point, you don't find 50 articles about any pop, music, or celebrity here. This is an outlier that is only appearing because David Bowie had an outsized impact in larger culture.

So basically, you're complaining about a problem/trend that doesn't exist. Your proposed solution isn't really helpful as this article will likely have traveled down to the bottom of the list in a week, and your quoting the guidelines also isn't relevant since this is not about "politics, crime, or sports".

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#295

I don’t even know why I would want to be on a label in a few years, because I don’t think it’s going to work by labels and by distribution systems in the same way. The absolute transformation of everything that we ever thought about music will take place within 10 years, and nothing is going to be able to stop it. I see absolutely no point in pretending that it’s not going to happen. I’m fully confident that copyrigh…

> I don’t even know why I would want to be on a label in a few years, > because I don’t think it’s going to work by labels and by distribution > systems in the same way. > > --David Bowie, 2002 Something to think about in music that also happens in startups and software: These are social activities. People don’t judge music solely by some kind of independent metric of appeal. They also judge whether the music is popu…

If you look at the entire group of people who listen to music (and make music on their own), I don't believe this analysis fits very well. It may fit for some part of it, or for parts of the music industry, but music is more like film or theatre than it is TV or video games or other art forms.

You have a group of people who just want to hang out with their friends and whatever is popular with them is "good enough" to meet that need. This is analogous with multiplex viewers. Then you have people with specific tastes or interests. They are often willing to spend more (by an order of magnitude) than "typical" listeners and less likely to care if lots of other people come along with them or not. This is similar to art house film-goers judge what to watch. Finally, you have people who may be amateur or part time musicians themselves and appreciate a different take from everyone else. They can even be trendsetters in whatever new music that comes out. In the film analogy, they could be people who set up, run, review, and/or submit movies to film festivals.

The thing is, you may be able to influence one group of people with your approach to controlling and marketing music even if the music is self is mediocre, but those people also care less and are worth less than the other segments. And the way the music industry is going, they may not be worth much at all individually (which I think was the point of the OPs quote from David Bowie).

In tech, this would be the Bing.com approach to search versus alot of other startups which seek to grab the early adopters first and then pull in more mainstream stuff later. It can work, but not as well over time.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Southeast Asia it's Maroon 5 and Katy Perry everywhere you go.

Is it? Maybe in shopping malls and bars, then I agree. I live in Singapore and a lot of Singaporeans who I meet listen mostly to either Chinese or Indian music. It might be different though in Thailand or Malaysia. Remember though, that SEA is just part of Asia. China and India are huge music markets. Additionally, Japan and Korea have very strong, local music scene as well.

I would actually call out Japan first, they still have the 2nd largest market by revenue with quite a distance [1]. It's more than half of what the US music market makes.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_music_industry_market_s...

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the situation reversed ? were men without hats big ? the good music today is in the shadow while the mainstream pours industrialized music overwhelmingly. I don't understand how Kanye West is anything but an arrogant dude, but I'm biased against Hip Hop nowadays. Radiohead is very much a 90s in my eyes.

Kanye's music is HUGE. I don't think you quite understand. Every album he's put out has been a certified classic (with the exception of Yeezus, which was very polarizing). You don't win 21 grammys for no reason. He really is that influential and responsible for a generation of music and a generation of artists that took after him (and continue to do so). I don't think anyone comes close to being a "rockstar" in the c…

Since everybody seems to agree, I'll revisit my "judgements". I thought I had my mind opened enough not to dismiss music for stupid reasons.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

McD's and Coke are popular because people really want what they sell. It's not just a psychological thing, like everyone is a mindless zombie brainwashed by Ronald McDonald. They don't like it because they've been told to like it (if anything, it's the opposite these days), they like it because it's convenient and it has a ton of sugar and other addictive additives in it. People like both convenience and sugar; that'…

People love cocaine too. It doesn't mean you have their best interests at heart in selling it to them. Modern commercial pop music, like junk fast food, is the product of a profit-driven corporation using psychology and focus group research to push your pleasure buttons without actually providing you with any nourishment. The worst thing about both kinds of products is that they destroy local diversity and teach peop…

The issue wasn't whether Coke and McDonald's care about their consumers' health. It was simply that there is more to these brands than marketing. They're providing a product people really like. It is like cocaine. There is substance to the desire, which doesn't mean that its a morally or ethically justified desire, but means that it's not imaginary and it's not simply the product of emotional or psychological manipulation.

Do people want to do drugs as much as possible? Yes. Do people want to pretend that candy is normal food and eat candy for every meal? Yes. Coke and McDonald's are supplying the latter demand. It doesn't absolve them of responsibility and it doesn't mean they're not manipulative or dishonest. It just means that there is a real, physiological desire backing their products that's not artificially created by cartoon clowns or polar bears.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#299
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "50s to the 90s"--which is so laughably general, that's four generations of music, if not more--had The Beatles and David Bowie and it also had The Monkees and Men Without Hats. We have the artists who it's funny to make fun of, like Bieber, and we have Jack White, we have Kanye West, we have Radiohead--and we had David Bowie, he's a modern artist today , have you listened to Blackstar, which openly tips its cap…

For every one of those decades I could name several rock bands who were commercially successful and whose music also represented a major, youth-oriented cultural movement which challenged the status quo. I am hard pressed to name a single band like that which started recording in the 21st century. Interpret it as you will but I think he has a point that the stuff that gets into the top 40, certainly within the rock g…

But rock is the status quo; with anything rock-like, you run the risk that your parents will like it. That makes it hard for rock to challenge the status quo.

When I hear "major, youth-oriented cultural movement which challenged the status quo" I think about house, hip hop, and rap.

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