David Bowie Has Died • Hacker News Board

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#251

Post by maldusiecle » Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 6:56 PM UTC

ebbv wrote: post #137

cageface wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything labels are more important than ever and music sales are driven by the kind of marketing campaigns that only big records labels can afford. There's a ton of interesting music being made outside their domain but most people will never hear any of it.

> If anything labels are more important than ever and music sales are driven by the kind of marketing campaigns that only big records labels can afford. That's just not true. While the very few artists that do sell albums nowadays (Taylor Swift, Adele, Kanye West, etc.) are on major labels and do have promotion from major labels, these artists are also already successful enough to have done their own promotion if the…

Where are your numbers coming from? Wikipedia says 25 has sold 7.6 million in the US, and it's only been out a few months. 21 sold 11 million. In comparison, Thriller, one of the bestselling records of all time, sold 30 million. (All these numbers are US sales only.)

The data says exactly the opposite of what you're saying.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#252

Post by marchdown » Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 6:56 PM UTC

braythwayt wrote: post #78

synthmeat wrote: post #21

I don’t even know why I would want to be on a label in a few years, because I don’t think it’s going to work by labels and by distribution systems in the same way. The absolute transformation of everything that we ever thought about music will take place within 10 years, and nothing is going to be able to stop it. I see absolutely no point in pretending that it’s not going to happen. I’m fully confident that copyrigh…

> I don’t even know why I would want to be on a label in a few years, > because I don’t think it’s going to work by labels and by distribution > systems in the same way. > > --David Bowie, 2002 Something to think about in music that also happens in startups and software: These are social activities. People don’t judge music solely by some kind of independent metric of appeal. They also judge whether the music is popu…

> The vast majority of people wish to belong to the tribe of “The vast majority of people.”

This is not obvious to me at all. Would someone please explain?

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#253

Post by reinhardt » Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 7:02 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #233

reinhardt wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to think of such "strange" highly voted posts as revealing a hidden correlation. Yes, there may not be any obvious prior reason to expect that people who frequent HN find David Bowie or his death significant. And yet they do. There doesn't have to be a cause-and-effect or "logical" explanation. It is what it is.

People who frequent HN are likely to be part of the set of people who have been influenced by popular culture, which is a superset of David Bowie fans.

This would imply that all/most posts about popular culture figures are highly upvoted in HN but I doubt this is the case (no data, just subjective impression).

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#254

Post by webjprgm » Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 7:03 PM UTC

braythwayt wrote: post #180

sjclemmy wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Bowie was the antithesis of this. If you'll forgive the hyperbole, he is the archetypal outsider, the patron saint of the dispossessed. So for all those who don't feel that they belong, Bowie's activities provided a message - 'It's OK to be an outsider', and, curiously, through that message provided a sense of belonging - I'm going to get all metaphysical and say that that is alchemical / transformative in a…

Bowie may have been an outsider, but consider that your exact feelings are social, those feelings of belonging and connection to an icon. The music industry is just as adept at monetizing those feelings as they are of monetizing teen-age angst or adolescent her-worship of boy bands. My point being, that while Bowie and many others can stand outside of the industry, I don’t believe the basic dynamics are going to chan…

I only heard of Bowie because of The Labyrinth. :-)

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#255

Post by readymade » Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 7:09 PM UTC

browseatwork wrote: post #247

Doesn't this quotation strongly apply to software engineers? I find engineers have more trouble applying the same logic to software engineering, while applying it to artists, especially musicians, without much reflection.

There's such a pervasive notion, especially among techies and other white collar types, that artists and musicians either don't deserve a good living or should be happy just to get to do what they do, regardless of income. It's a tremendous sense of entitlement on the one hand, to express contempt for the individual while expecting unlimited access to their work. I believe Astra Taylor made an interesting point about how this idea of the artist as the mandatorily broke but (ideally) self-fulfilled creator is also increasingly extended as a metaphor in recent business press when discussing the plight of graduates, interns and freelancers.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#256

Post by eterm » Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 7:13 PM UTC

kunai wrote: post #29

pearjuice wrote: post #22

Though unfortunate, I don't think this belongs on HN.

HN's guidelines suggest things hackers would find interesting; Bowie's genius, non-conformity, and willingness to experiment with musical form are certainly characteristics hackers would find interesting. His loss is a loss to the entire world of art and music, and he was one of my favorite musicians — my single favorite for a very long time. May he rest in peace.

The same guidelines suggest, "If TV news covers it, it's likely off topic"

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#257

Post by eblanshey » Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #240

David Bowie was one of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. He singlehandedly changed the direction of the entire music industry - repeatedly - for decades . He pulled in ideas and imagery from the most avant-garde corners of culture, and made it accessible and popular. There's hardly a musician out there in rock music or many other forms that hasn't been influenced directly by him. David Bowie relentlessly delivered bol…

> He singlehandedly changed the direction of the entire music industry - repeatedly - for decades.

Mind expanding on this? I don't know too much about him.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#258

Post by Kalium » Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 7:24 PM UTC

readymade wrote: post #255

browseatwork wrote: post #247

Doesn't this quotation strongly apply to software engineers? I find engineers have more trouble applying the same logic to software engineering, while applying it to artists, especially musicians, without much reflection.

There's such a pervasive notion, especially among techies and other white collar types, that artists and musicians either don't deserve a good living or should be happy just to get to do what they do, regardless of income. It's a tremendous sense of entitlement on the one hand, to express contempt for the individual while expecting unlimited access to their work. I believe Astra Taylor made an interesting point about…

I think you may have missed the core of the notion. It's not about who "deserves" what at all. It's about providing value. Techies and other white collar types generally provide value by doing bespoke work. Demanding payment to copy non-custom bits because they have a certain color is not providing value in any readily apparent way.

What you've also missed is how sick and tired techies are of artists and musicians seeking to "deserve a good living" by controlling techies. To express contempt for our work while expecting unlimited cringing subservience.

Why is it that so-called "artists" are so quick to demand creative control over the work of others who work in different mediums? I have a few guesses.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#259

Post by vox_mollis » Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 7:27 PM UTC

vixen99 wrote: post #230

vox_mollis wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to complain. Just flag and move on. You and I don't understand why celebrities deserve coverage, but clearly plenty of others do.

Of course you understand. The media are businesses. As such they provide what the customers want and what they know about. As a personal view, it isn't until one looks at alternative news coverage (which I'll define as 'that which is not one's usual bill of fare') that the partiality of journalists and media empires becomes apparent.

Right, but the OP is likely questioning why HN, which is supposedly a medium at least slightly immune to the vagaries of normal celebrity worship, is covering it.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#260

Post by wanda » Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 7:27 PM UTC

SonicSoul wrote: post #216

synthmeat wrote: post #21

I don’t even know why I would want to be on a label in a few years, because I don’t think it’s going to work by labels and by distribution systems in the same way. The absolute transformation of everything that we ever thought about music will take place within 10 years, and nothing is going to be able to stop it. I see absolutely no point in pretending that it’s not going to happen. I’m fully confident that copyrigh…

this is a travesty. In addition to loving his music he also lived in my neighborhood in nyc and I've been naming our internal applications after his songs. Put up a black banner on Ground Control as we speak :( my favorite is the collab he did with Trent Reznor on I'm Afraid of Americans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPVrFIP0CMs

I wonder if the starman Perl webserver is named after the David Bowie song...