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How does the wholesale foreign exchange market actually work?

getmondo.co.uk

21–30 of 55 posts

Re: How does the wholesale foreign exchange market actually work?

#21

Since their blog is coming up, asking HN: Mondo is looking like an interesting bank. I've had my eyes on both them and Simple for a while; unfortunately, I'm not in the UK anymore nor in the US so I went with Number 26 instead. Anyone have any experience with either?

I have been using Number26 as my main spending account for a few months now but wouldn't use it as my main account. There are a few things that aren't implemented yet, such as crediting cheques (I still get one or two a year) or non-SEPA transfers (though to be fair it is very expensive at banks compared to e.g. Transferwise so I wouldn't use it either way). The support is overwhelmed at the moment and over Christmas they had technical diffuculties that weren't fixed for around a week, presumbly because they had no staff on-call to do so. Also their card doesn't have a Girocard function which makes it unusable at some locations in Germany.

Unlike other banks they don't refund ATM charges. Also, according to internet forum users those tend to be a bit higher compared to other MasterCard cards for some reason. Additionally multiple users reported problems using at card at some South-East Asian POS Locations. But having a backup card is never a bad idea.

It's very convient that they immediatly deduct money from your account as soon as the charge is authorized (which makes it easier to model in my mind as it works just like real money) compared to traditional cards where it takes a few days. However that also applies to holds (e.g. from hotels). I would advise they have another card for such purposes.

Also, I wouldn't suggest keeping your money in a currency that you have no connection with simply because of the forex risk.

You might also want to take a look at Revolut https://revolut.com It's not a bank account but a very useful card with very good exchange rates.

Re: How does the wholesale foreign exchange market actually work?

#22

Since their blog is coming up, asking HN: Mondo is looking like an interesting bank. I've had my eyes on both them and Simple for a while; unfortunately, I'm not in the UK anymore nor in the US so I went with Number 26 instead. Anyone have any experience with either?

I tried to open a Number 26 account. After going through, and passing, their KYC process I found out the account could only be activated through their app. That is despite lack of clarity in their documentation, which I believe clearly suggest activation can be completed online through a browser. Guess what? Their Android app can only be downloaded through Google's Play Store. I'm running CyanogenMod on my phone with…

Yeah, I had some similar issues with their activation process - I don't have a mobile phone number and part of their activation process requires one, so I had to borrow a phone. The idnow.eu company they work with is a nice idea (and far better than the alternatives) but I actually found they were rude and unhelpful when camera quality isn't at its best.

I think these things can be fixed though, and I'm willing to take one-time signup pains for a continuous pleasant experience. I'm still waiting on my card, looking forward to actually trying them out day to day.

Far better than HSBC in any case. What a joke. I could write a few paragraphs on how atrocious everything about them is...

Re: How does the wholesale foreign exchange market actually work?

#23

Since their blog is coming up, asking HN: Mondo is looking like an interesting bank. I've had my eyes on both them and Simple for a while; unfortunately, I'm not in the UK anymore nor in the US so I went with Number 26 instead. Anyone have any experience with either?

I tried to open a Number 26 account. After going through, and passing, their KYC process I found out the account could only be activated through their app. That is despite lack of clarity in their documentation, which I believe clearly suggest activation can be completed online through a browser. Guess what? Their Android app can only be downloaded through Google's Play Store. I'm running CyanogenMod on my phone with…

I also remember that they talked about such an option. To be fair they state in multiple locations that using their app is a prerequisite for having an account (I think I even remember checking such a box during signup). You also can't authorize transfers without their app. This is a deliberate choice on their side.

Re: How does the wholesale foreign exchange market actually work?

#24

Since their blog is coming up, asking HN: Mondo is looking like an interesting bank. I've had my eyes on both them and Simple for a while; unfortunately, I'm not in the UK anymore nor in the US so I went with Number 26 instead. Anyone have any experience with either?

I have been using Number26 as my main spending account for a few months now but wouldn't use it as my main account. There are a few things that aren't implemented yet, such as crediting cheques (I still get one or two a year) or non-SEPA transfers (though to be fair it is very expensive at banks compared to e.g. Transferwise so I wouldn't use it either way). The support is overwhelmed at the moment and over Christmas…

Thanks a lot for that Revolut link, it looks like exactly what I need. Have you used it?

Regarding currency: I'm currently in the eurozone but I travel a lot. I was in sweden until recently for a year, not long enough to bother with a bank account. If I did I would actually have lost a fair bit of money, seeing how the GBP and SEK evolved in that year.

Re: How does the wholesale foreign exchange market actually work?

#25
post #8

I've been left wondering how the Mondo/Mastercard rate actually works: yes they pick some rate based on X, Y and Z, but how does this interact with the market described in the post? I suspect not very much at all, at least for major currencies, as Mastercard has people buying $ for £ in the UK, and £ for $ in the US, so they only need to go onto the market for the imbalance, allowing an "incredibly good" rate, when t…

There doesn't seem to be much information publicly available regarding how payment networks manage transactional FX risk exposure, but I did find this:

MasterCard enters into transactions in derivative financial instruments, typically in the form of foreign currency forward contracts, to manage risk associated with anticipated receipts and disbursements which are either transacted in a non-functional currency or valued based on a currency other than its functional currencies. MasterCard also enters into foreign currency forward contracts to offset possible changes in value of assets and liabilities denominated in foreign currencies due to foreign exchange rate fluctuations. MasterCard does not engage in proprietary trading of derivatives. Its objective for entering into transactions in derivative financial instruments is to reduce exposure to transaction gains and losses resulting from fluctuations of foreign currencies against its functional currencies. MasterCard engages in derivatives transactions solely and exclusively for the purpose of hedging foreign currency exchange risk incurred in the operation of its business.

As noted above, MasterCard has approximately 20,000 customers, and processes payment card transactions from more than 210 countries and territories. MasterCard derives approximately 60% of its revenue from outside of the United States. Given the global reach of our company, we are deeply impacted by fluctuations in foreign currency exchange rates in the operation of our business. MasterCard generates revenues and incurs expenses that are either transacted in, or valued based on, currencies other than the U.S. Dollar. For example, MasterCard charges its customers assessment fees for various services it provides to its customers, including the use of the MasterCard brand globally. These assessment fees are typically a percentage charge on a customer's total volume of transactions incurred on MasterCard-branded cards. Because of MasterCard's global presence, transactions effected in foreign currencies are converted into U.S. Dollars and the percentage charge (i.e., assessment fee) is calculated on this converted U.S. Dollar volume. Hence, fluctuations in foreign exchange rates impact the amount of U.S. Dollar assessment revenue MasterCard collects. Similarly, given our global footprint, we make significant expenditures and incur significant contractual obligations to make future expenditures in countries around the world for commercial activities, such as marketing, advertising, payroll and operations. These expenditures and obligations may be denominated in currencies other than the U.S. Dollar. This exposes MasterCard to fluctuations in foreign exchange rates. In addition to our transactional exposures, we also hedge balance sheet assets and liabilities denominated in foreign currencies. From time to time, MasterCard is also exposed to foreign exchange risks arising from overseas acquisitions.

Source: https://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/federal/2011/11c89ad79...

Re: How does the wholesale foreign exchange market actually work?

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been using Number26 as my main spending account for a few months now but wouldn't use it as my main account. There are a few things that aren't implemented yet, such as crediting cheques (I still get one or two a year) or non-SEPA transfers (though to be fair it is very expensive at banks compared to e.g. Transferwise so I wouldn't use it either way). The support is overwhelmed at the moment and over Christmas…

Thanks a lot for that Revolut link, it looks like exactly what I need. Have you used it? Regarding currency: I'm currently in the eurozone but I travel a lot. I was in sweden until recently for a year, not long enough to bother with a bank account. If I did I would actually have lost a fair bit of money, seeing how the GBP and SEK evolved in that year.

Yes, they offer the best rates out of any card I have ever seen. I use them for travel outside the Eurozone. They allow to keep money in EUR, USD and GBP at the same time.

Note that it's classified as electronic money under British law so much worse fund protection than a bank account if any. I wouldn't keep much money there.

They say that they will Charge fees after the first year of using it but haven't said how it will look like yet. Until now they haven't charged anything. They have planned some new features for tommorrow but I don't know what to except.

Re: How does the wholesale foreign exchange market actually work?

#27
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I transferred some savings last year, because I emigrated. All the normal British banks offered very poor exchange rates. Traditional money exchange sites, which seemed to target people making large foreign purchases (houses etc) or people looking to invest in foreign currency were better, but as soon as I signed up on the website I received calls from their staff, which annoyed me. In any case, the rates were still…

I wish their "see how" section would explain how it actually worked (including what the source and destinations can be), rather than just telling me it's cheaper than the banks. The site seems to want me to sign up before even giving any hint what's required; that's not an on-boarding experience that my 15seconds of curiosity will work with.

That's true. TransferWise ran a lot of poster advertisements in London, but I think I realised how it worked from a competitor's advertisements — https://www.weswap.com/ (slightly worse rates, and works by using a card, but they have a better website).

TransferWise have a well-buried FAQ item: https://transferwise.com/support/customer/en/portal/articles...

Re: How does the wholesale foreign exchange market actually work?

#28
post #5

I can not imagine it is that good of a deal as I get calls about people wanting to help me with my foreign exchange on a monthly basis for many years now. There is not topic that I get more cold calls on than this. This suggests to me, this means it must be fairly profitable for those companies offering it, and that profit likely would come out of my pockets, but I haven't done the analysis. That said, I know my bank…

While I use TransferWise for getting paid by clients in other countries, I rely on http://currencyfair.com for my own money movements.

The typical "catch" in most FX services is a hidden 2.5% - 5% fee in the exchange rate itself. You might be offered free, better rates than your bank! and will still be paying 2%.

The likes of CF or TW have got this fee down to well under 1%, although TF certainly give every impression of skimming off the rate for amounts under $1,000.

(at least, that's the impression the rate on their website calculator gives; I've only used larger transfer than that, and can't say anything from experience)

Re: How does the wholesale foreign exchange market actually work?

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks a lot for that Revolut link, it looks like exactly what I need. Have you used it? Regarding currency: I'm currently in the eurozone but I travel a lot. I was in sweden until recently for a year, not long enough to bother with a bank account. If I did I would actually have lost a fair bit of money, seeing how the GBP and SEK evolved in that year.

Yes, they offer the best rates out of any card I have ever seen. I use them for travel outside the Eurozone. They allow to keep money in EUR, USD and GBP at the same time. Note that it's classified as electronic money under British law so much worse fund protection than a bank account if any. I wouldn't keep much money there. They say that they will Charge fees after the first year of using it but haven't said how it…

Anyone in Britain could also get a card detailed here [1].

I've been using a Halifax Clarity card for years. I've not paid any ATM or purchase charges in ~20 countries.

I now have a Revolut card, since I recently left the UK, but haven't used it yet.

[1] http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/travel-credit-...

Re: How does the wholesale foreign exchange market actually work?

#30
post #5

I can not imagine it is that good of a deal as I get calls about people wanting to help me with my foreign exchange on a monthly basis for many years now. There is not topic that I get more cold calls on than this. This suggests to me, this means it must be fairly profitable for those companies offering it, and that profit likely would come out of my pockets, but I haven't done the analysis. That said, I know my bank…

I transferred some savings last year, because I emigrated. All the normal British banks offered very poor exchange rates. Traditional money exchange sites, which seemed to target people making large foreign purchases (houses etc) or people looking to invest in foreign currency were better, but as soon as I signed up on the website I received calls from their staff, which annoyed me. In any case, the rates were still…

You can also use a plain old brokerage account. My broker charges 0.2% commission, less than half TransferWise's lowest rate, and it's direct access to the interbank market so there's no margin, execution delay, etc.

The downside is you need to own the account you send money to, due to AML laws.

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