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Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

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Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#71
I'll chip in as a recent animator-turned-web-developer:

1. Learn plain old JavaScript(https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript), paying particular attention to both ES5 and ES6. Most of the latest frameworks work with JS as its base, so if you know JS you'll likely find it easier to figure them out.

2. Learn CSS(it's easy, shouldn't take you more than a couple of hours) and then dive into SASS or LESS.

3. Take some time to learn how Node and it's package manager npm work.

4. For the more back-endish choices, I'd have a look at getting a basic understanding of NodeJS, RoR and Django. One of these should appeal to you more than the others and I'd just pick one and stick to it.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#72
Since you've done PHP and MySQL previously, if you still remember how to use that, it's worth starting with a simple PHP micro framework (like Slim, or maybe Symfony 3). That will teach you about using URLs for routing. (If starting from scratch, pick a language, and pick a micro framework for it: Ruby => Sinatra, Python => Flask)

Get comfortable with that, and then create a route that sends back information in JSON instead of HTML. That will then give you something to try Ajax against.

Also, learn CSS. The Web switched to CSS for layout in 2001-2004. Have a read through 24ways.org -- their advent calendar for each year, it's nice bit size bits about modern web development. CSS for layout. Responsive design (basically adapting to various browser window sizes and screen resolutions). If you want to learn how to lay out a page in CSS this is essential, but if you want to get up to speed just building stuff, then taking something like Twitter's Bootstrap is a handy starting point.

Also, jQuery. Learn about using events properly, and keeping JavaScript in a separate file and hooking into the browser/document events you are interested in. jQuery is the starting point for getting your head around Unobtrusive JavaScript.

If you are interested in getting your head around static HTML/CSS sites first, it might be worth pulling up a Jekyll tutorial and following that. (Jekyll is a static site generator. Markdown documents rendered as static HTML using the Liquid tempting language)

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#73
post #55

Here's a semi-controversial opinion: you probably don't need to learn much. You don't need hipster.js to build a website. You can still build websites that can be used by millions of people using PHP, mysql, and HTML. Lots and lots of people will tell you to learn hipster.js, and will imply that if you aren't using something written by 3 20 year olds in a coffee shop during a hackathon, that you can't get The Scale.…

Wow, what about Html5, ES6 and Ajax? Sure you can ignore those new technologies and keep on building your website in PHP and HTML4. But nowadays most customers want more than a simple form based website.

In 2016, chances are that your website will also be used on tablets and smartphones. Those users want a fast interactive user experience. Which most likely means a single page application with a substantial amount of JS code running on the client side and an Ajax interface to the backend.

To become a good web programmer you need to get some proficiency in Javascript and HTML5. And you need to get an idea about how to deal with the asynchronicity of Ajax calls in an elegant way in your code. That doesn't mean you have to start using Angular or React, but it is a good idea anyway to look at some modern frameworks to get a feeling for which concepts work well and which don't.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#74
post #55

Here's a semi-controversial opinion: you probably don't need to learn much. You don't need hipster.js to build a website. You can still build websites that can be used by millions of people using PHP, mysql, and HTML. Lots and lots of people will tell you to learn hipster.js, and will imply that if you aren't using something written by 3 20 year olds in a coffee shop during a hackathon, that you can't get The Scale.…

So, it turns out that going by the responses to @neLrivVK's question that this opinion of yours is in not in any way controversial. In fact I think it would be a great topic to have a poll about but first we'd need to agree on what to put in the poll :) Straw poll suggests that at least 50% say, "stay the course but tweak knowledge".

Of the tech that the OP listed two things are _not_ hipster.js front end libraries or frameworks, and I wish I had mentioned them in my other response below.

1) Bootstrap: This is a huge productivity boost for CSS. You get a responsive layouts, a standard way to do grid layouts and it papers over browser differences and compensates for older browsers. OP says they don't use much CSS, that really doesn't cut the mustard in 2016. And, hey, Bootstrap is made by those guys at Twitter† (not 3 20-year-olds in a coffee shop as you so amusingly put it!) so they probably know a thing or two about UI layout and design. I'd be interested to know what % of websites now use Bootstrap or something inspired by it. Bootstrap was released as open-source in August 2011, it'll be 5-years-old tech this year.

2) jQuery: This is a huge productivity boost for JS. Of course you can use that hipster tool Vanilla JS (http://vanilla-js.com/) but jQuery is so concise, the syntax and semantics are well thought out, again papers over browser differences. You can chain operations together. The way it does selectors is brilliant. John Resig basically had some sort of divine inspiration. That fact that he was 14(?) at the time of writing it... well... that's how one learns to be humble in life. Sure raw JS is going to blow jQuery out of the water perf-wise but going by what OP says, dev time is what we're optimizing for here, jQuery will be plenty fast. It's used* on what, ~ 70%..90% of websites? I'm surprised a version of it isn't built into browsers yet. jQuery is 2006 tech, it's a decade old this year. (Also released as open-source in August, hmm).

† and Angular is Google tech, React is Facebook tech, Rails is 37signals tech but all have have huge open-source communities.

* http://trends.builtwith.com/javascript

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#75
post #16

> But in the little free time I have available > But after work and family, there isn't much time left If you want to ship ASAP with little time investment, IMO nothing beats Meteor. Skills required: HTML, CSS, JS. I've built projects with PHP, Rails, Django, Node, Angular, etc ... and Meteor is the framework I recommend to newcomers. Ok, you're not exactly a newcomer, but clearly you've been disconnected many years…

Meteor is great for side-projects, finding a good job as a Meteor developer can be hard - maybe make some research first if there're any job offers in Your area if You are thinking about going full-time with Meteor.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#76
post #70
post #55

Here's a semi-controversial opinion: you probably don't need to learn much. You don't need hipster.js to build a website. You can still build websites that can be used by millions of people using PHP, mysql, and HTML. Lots and lots of people will tell you to learn hipster.js, and will imply that if you aren't using something written by 3 20 year olds in a coffee shop during a hackathon, that you can't get The Scale.…

Agreed. Learn Bootstrap and safe design time, and give a fuck about all that hypster technologie. A framework in your favorite language with a proper ORM would definitly help tho.

Bootstrap was released a decade after this guy stopped doing webdev. This is the kind of stuff he needs to know about, and why the whining about "hipster" stuff isn't useful.

He is looking for the basics of modern development. The stuff you consider solid, reliable, time-tested, (non-hipster) tech came out years and years after he stopped doing web development.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#78
Prefacing this with "I'm in my 20s and don't know what development was really like in the 90s", but I want to suggest an alternative approach...

It looks like the thing that has changed most is not the languages and frameworks (you can still use PHP, MySQL, effectively), but actually the deployment.

Automated deployment, continuous integration and delivery, and cloud services like AWS seem to be the bit that has changed the most.

If I'm wrong, ignore me, but otherwise, I'd have a play around with something like Ansible, use a few AWS services, some of the more value-add ones (i.e. not EC2 or S3) to see what you can now get "off the shelf".

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#79
I would recommend learning steps like this:

+ Update your php knowledge to modern standards. (i.e. autoloader)

+ Learn just some sass and use bootstrap 3.

+ Use something like laravel as a php framework or even smaller like slim

+ DONT get confused by the plethora of JS-Frameworks. DONT use build tools in the beginning. Plain old tags for the start.

Start building something nice.

sign up on laracast.com ;)

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#80
Get up an hour earlier than you do each day. It's hard when you start, but if you don't have much spare time then it is the best way to keep up with the industry.

Spend this time updating your knowledge base via. tech news, tutorial/e-course sites such as Udemy/Pluralsight (if you learn best by video-and-code) or official textual documentation/guides otherwise.

Learn about version control (Git), HTML5/CSS3, ECMAscript 6... PHP and MySQL are still fine. Read guides about modern practices such as mobile-first development, testing via. Chrome developer tools, file minification/concatenation etc. Just learn a little each morning and don't feel overwhelmed!

Consider the points of the following link and don't worry about the "flavour of the week" libraries so much and you'll be fine -> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/a/46760/74224

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