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Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

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Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#11
First, don't worry about new frameworks or languages right away. You can stick with PHP/mySQL on the back end to start.

Learn all the updates to CSS first, to understand how pages are structured without tables. That will help you to move on to jQuery, which will in turn help you understand how JavaScript is used nowadays to work with the page. Once you are that far, you can pursue node.js to get up to speed on server-side JS.

After that, you should be as caught up as you need to be, and will better be able to evaluate all the other frameworks and languages out there, and set your own direction.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#12
post #6

My take is that a greater percentage of websites can be written in HTML and CSS than currently are: both in the sense of websites that could be entirely written in HTML and CSS and as portions of websites that can be written in HTML and CSS instead of with something else. Many of current batch of tools were developed to meet the needs of engineering teams at scale: e.g. Angular @ Google and React @ Facebook. Their he…

Completely this.

If I teleported here from the 90s, first thing I'd need to wrap my head around is how HTML and CSS have changed. I'd be learning a responsive framework (or even hand-rolling it, so you know how it works) like bootstrap. And doing a very basic website.

And if html5 & responsive css aren't enough to wrap your head around at once, I'd create a github account, and start with github pages. That'll let you use the static site generator Jekyll. The combination of all three will do pretty much all you need for 90% of the sites out there.

After that, then I'd look at a stack that lets you have some degree of interactivity and persistence in order to build web apps.... But for now, clean responsive websites would be the way forward.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#13
post #6

My take is that a greater percentage of websites can be written in HTML and CSS than currently are: both in the sense of websites that could be entirely written in HTML and CSS and as portions of websites that can be written in HTML and CSS instead of with something else. Many of current batch of tools were developed to meet the needs of engineering teams at scale: e.g. Angular @ Google and React @ Facebook. Their he…

I can't agree more. The tons of frameworks and libraries coming out are suited to specific use cases, more web applications than simple sites, and using them unnecessariy will not gain any advantages. If you just want to "setup a website every now and then", your current skillset is more than sufficient. Don't fall into the trap of using new technology for the sake of using new technology.

You may notice that when late 90s/early 2000s sites get posted to HN, there are often a set of comments on how quick-to-load and readable they are.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#14
post #6

My take is that a greater percentage of websites can be written in HTML and CSS than currently are: both in the sense of websites that could be entirely written in HTML and CSS and as portions of websites that can be written in HTML and CSS instead of with something else. Many of current batch of tools were developed to meet the needs of engineering teams at scale: e.g. Angular @ Google and React @ Facebook. Their he…

I second this. Additionally, if the choices are still overhelming and you have an idea of what you really want to build, I would suggest trying something like writing cucumber features[1] and running them in a headless browser.

I'm sure many people will tell you about their negative experiences and how writing these kinds of "tests" are slow or misleading or a waste of time. But I would say that deciding what your software does--even in an abstract and gradual fashion--gives you tremendous freedom in knowing that all the other choices are just implementation details of a larger design. (As the parent says, a "lower level of commitment".)

[1] https://cucumber.io

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#16
> But in the little free time I have available

> But after work and family, there isn't much time left

If you want to ship ASAP with little time investment, IMO nothing beats Meteor. Skills required: HTML, CSS, JS.

I've built projects with PHP, Rails, Django, Node, Angular, etc ... and Meteor is the framework I recommend to newcomers. Ok, you're not exactly a newcomer, but clearly you've been disconnected many years and you don't have enough free time to learn new tools/languages. You'll need a lot of abstractions (features, deployment, db interfacing, best practices, etc)...

Meteor will help you with this, a lot... And the most important thing: it's a lot of fun!

https://www.meteor.com/

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Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#17
I don't know what any of those things you named are. I ignore all that stuff. The only thing from the '90s that doesn't work anymore is Flash, because I guess Apple blocked it during the mobile revolution and it killed its dominant position.

Otherwise, everything applicable from back then still is today. Any time anyone mentions PHP on forums like this, there's always fashion-conscious people who jump in to attack it. But I'm still building brand new websites based on it, and people still express their gratitude, never once saying there's any problem because the site uses PHP.

MySQL is still going strong, and there's some alternatives that are compatible, like Percona and Maria.

JavaScript is the same. There's all these frameworks like there are for PHP, but I ignore all that. I never understood why I'd be better off using someone else's virtual language on top of a language. I just use bare JavaScript, and it works the same to me as it did back then. Still have to worry about differences between browsers, but instead of Netscape and IE, it's stuff like Chrome, Firefox, and Edge. A framework can make that easier, but it can make others things more difficult, and it's better to keep dependence on JS minimal anyways.

What I'm getting at is, I don't know why you need to update anything. If you're trying to get a specific job, then you need to use what they do. But for just building things in your free time that work on modern web browsers, you already know what you need to know. You could probably even run the same exact version of server and authoring tools you did before, and it should display fine in the latest web browsers.

It's different if you want to build something like a mobile app, or Windows software, because those platforms changed significantly since the '90s. There's languages now that didn't exist then, and new tools you've never seen before.

But on the web, any text editor, HTML, and any language you want for the backend is fine. Just like I still write .sh scripts, and they get the job done.

It's more important to spend that time on family, and your career. Since the stuff you already know still works, there's not much need to use anything else. Unless you're worried about what the kids think, and how they'll judge you.

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#18
post #16

> But in the little free time I have available > But after work and family, there isn't much time left If you want to ship ASAP with little time investment, IMO nothing beats Meteor. Skills required: HTML, CSS, JS. I've built projects with PHP, Rails, Django, Node, Angular, etc ... and Meteor is the framework I recommend to newcomers. Ok, you're not exactly a newcomer, but clearly you've been disconnected many years…

Meteor takes the suck out of web development and feels so drastically different from everything else. Definitely worth it to take a look.

If you decide to use Meteor use: http://guide.meteor.com/

Re: Ask HN: How does a 1990s web developer get back on track?

#20
You've answered your own question: there's no need, you have no problem to solve by writing an app. Usually the problem itself dictates half the technology choices for you, and the rest are filled in by using what you already know. In your case though, you have no reason to write an app. So the only answer that makes sense is "none".
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