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Future Economists Will Probably Call This Decade the 'Longest Depression'

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Re: Future Economists Will Probably Call This Decade the 'Longest Depression'

#11

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

theseatoms wrote: post #6
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #3

In the course of selling his New Deal to the impoverished American public, president Franklin Delano Roosevelt pitched his reforms by stating: "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another, but above all try something. The millions who are in want will not stand by silently forever while the things to satisfy their needs are within easy reach." The most frustrating par…

Shouldn't the federal government's legislative reforms move at a snail's pace? I agree that the ideas you've mentioned are worth exploring, but what makes you think that they'll try the good ideas? Also, why not start at the state or local level?

State and local levels are the only places where there can be any real experimental reform. Just look at Colorado and the other states that have legalized marijuana by referendum. Direct democracy isn't necessarily better than elected representation, but politicians are motivated by the necessity of power, and so whoever controls the politicians controls the political process. People shouldn't be left up to decide everything, but they should have the power to question the decisions of their representatives and put an issue which garners enough support to a popular vote.

Re: Future Economists Will Probably Call This Decade the 'Longest Depression'

#12

Post by xlm1717 »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #3

In the course of selling his New Deal to the impoverished American public, president Franklin Delano Roosevelt pitched his reforms by stating: "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another, but above all try something. The millions who are in want will not stand by silently forever while the things to satisfy their needs are within easy reach." The most frustrating par…

In my opinion, the most frustrating part is that despite our hyperconnectedness, people still believe the propaganda that we're not in a depression or that our leaders got us out of the recession. Future economists will call the decade the "longest depression" not out of 20/20 hindsight, but simply because there will no longer be a need to make things seem rosy.

Re: Future Economists Will Probably Call This Decade the 'Longest Depression'

#13

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

davesque wrote: post #5
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #3

In the course of selling his New Deal to the impoverished American public, president Franklin Delano Roosevelt pitched his reforms by stating: "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another, but above all try something. The millions who are in want will not stand by silently forever while the things to satisfy their needs are within easy reach." The most frustrating par…

Ironically, it could be this very abundance of ideas which is so paralyzing. The more choices you have, the harder it is to choose. That being said, I agree that this problem has its roots in corrupt politics.

That's why reform has to start at a local level. Solutions that work brilliantly in Massachusetts have no guarantee of succeeding in Mississippi. Whatever ends up working broadly should be adopted by the federal government. Perhaps they could provide a block grant to each of the states to experiment with reforms and study the effects.

Re: Future Economists Will Probably Call This Decade the 'Longest Depression'

#14

Post by rm999 »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #3

In the course of selling his New Deal to the impoverished American public, president Franklin Delano Roosevelt pitched his reforms by stating: "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another, but above all try something. The millions who are in want will not stand by silently forever while the things to satisfy their needs are within easy reach." The most frustrating par…

It's not common sense to freely experiment with policy unless you're trying to sell a controversial progressive agenda (like, FDR in 1933). And I say this as a progressive who supports much of what he did. Applying sweeping changes is difficult and costly, and undoing them is even harder. For example, farm subsidies, which are generally unpopular, were put into place by FDR and just can't seem to go away.

Fundamental changes to our economic policy would probably last dozens or 100s of years, and could not easily be rolled back even if they hurt the economy.

Re: Future Economists Will Probably Call This Decade the 'Longest Depression'

#15

Post by Retric »

rm999 wrote: post #14
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #3

In the course of selling his New Deal to the impoverished American public, president Franklin Delano Roosevelt pitched his reforms by stating: "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another, but above all try something. The millions who are in want will not stand by silently forever while the things to satisfy their needs are within easy reach." The most frustrating par…

It's not common sense to freely experiment with policy unless you're trying to sell a controversial progressive agenda (like, FDR in 1933). And I say this as a progressive who supports much of what he did. Applying sweeping changes is difficult and costly, and undoing them is even harder. For example, farm subsidies, which are generally unpopular, were put into place by FDR and just can't seem to go away. Fundamental…

FDR was dealing with a far worse situation than we are used to. People where starving and huge tent city's where showing up, that's a recipe for revolution. Don't forget the communist party was gaining significant momentum. So, waiting was no longer a realistic option.

Re: Future Economists Will Probably Call This Decade the 'Longest Depression'

#16

Post by jsn117 »

xlm1717 wrote: post #12
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #3

In the course of selling his New Deal to the impoverished American public, president Franklin Delano Roosevelt pitched his reforms by stating: "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another, but above all try something. The millions who are in want will not stand by silently forever while the things to satisfy their needs are within easy reach." The most frustrating par…

In my opinion, the most frustrating part is that despite our hyperconnectedness, people still believe the propaganda that we're not in a depression or that our leaders got us out of the recession. Future economists will call the decade the "longest depression" not out of 20/20 hindsight, but simply because there will no longer be a need to make things seem rosy.

The terms "depression" and "recession" aren't just catch alls, they have actual definitions. And "we" (depending on the country, i'm assuming USA) are not in either.

Re: Future Economists Will Probably Call This Decade the 'Longest Depression'

#18

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

xlm1717 wrote: post #12
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #3

In the course of selling his New Deal to the impoverished American public, president Franklin Delano Roosevelt pitched his reforms by stating: "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another, but above all try something. The millions who are in want will not stand by silently forever while the things to satisfy their needs are within easy reach." The most frustrating par…

In my opinion, the most frustrating part is that despite our hyperconnectedness, people still believe the propaganda that we're not in a depression or that our leaders got us out of the recession. Future economists will call the decade the "longest depression" not out of 20/20 hindsight, but simply because there will no longer be a need to make things seem rosy.

If anything the story of communication has been one of ever greater methods to spread disinformation. Russians are swarmed on social media with paid shills for the government, and it makes it almost impossible to discern a genuine opinion or paid propaganda. I doubt there is a single person who is truly immune to misinformation, except perhaps the Beatles' "Fool on the Hill."

Re: Future Economists Will Probably Call This Decade the 'Longest Depression'

#19

Post by digi_owl »

davesque wrote: post #5
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #3

In the course of selling his New Deal to the impoverished American public, president Franklin Delano Roosevelt pitched his reforms by stating: "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another, but above all try something. The millions who are in want will not stand by silently forever while the things to satisfy their needs are within easy reach." The most frustrating par…

Ironically, it could be this very abundance of ideas which is so paralyzing. The more choices you have, the harder it is to choose. That being said, I agree that this problem has its roots in corrupt politics.

I think it is more that this time round, economics as a "school" is quite a bit more entrenched.

Keep in mind that during the great depression you had fascists in Italy and Germany, and communists in Russia.

Now the fascists have gone underground, and the communists have imploded.

All this gives the current mainstream economic thinking an air of correctness that it didn't have back then, by "virtue" of being the last system standing.

Sadly what is happening now is the rearranging of deckchairs on a sinking ship.

The big names of economics are arguing about where, if at all, the "frictions" are to be found in their models.

This while basically ignoring that the world right now is in the biggest private debt hole since the great depression, because they think that debt and savings are one and the same (and therefore sum to zero).

Re: Future Economists Will Probably Call This Decade the 'Longest Depression'

#20

Post by ashark »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #13
davesque wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, it could be this very abundance of ideas which is so paralyzing. The more choices you have, the harder it is to choose. That being said, I agree that this problem has its roots in corrupt politics.

That's why reform has to start at a local level. Solutions that work brilliantly in Massachusetts have no guarantee of succeeding in Mississippi. Whatever ends up working broadly should be adopted by the federal government. Perhaps they could provide a block grant to each of the states to experiment with reforms and study the effects.

Lots of things probably won't work very well at the state level, but might nationally. Consider what could happen if just a single state offered universal basic income, for instance.
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