Live data from Hacker News

SolarCity Will Eliminate Over 550 Job Due to State’s Anti-Rooftop Solar Decision

solarthermalmagazine.com

61–70 of 213 posts

Re: SolarCity Will Eliminate Over 550 Job Due to State’s Anti-Rooftop Solar Decision

#61
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best legal action is SolarCity (and others) to sue the State of Nevada over loss of business. Is that possible?

You want to create a right to not lose business because of government action ? Are you sure about that? You just entirely destroyed the EPA.

Actually, such a right exists in some cases, in particular, if it's found to be a taking.

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42635.pdf

Additionally, states generally can't impair existing contracts through legislation due to the contracts clause.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_Clause (mainly because i'm too lazy to write it all up here).

Re: SolarCity Will Eliminate Over 550 Job Due to State’s Anti-Rooftop Solar Decision

#62
post #17
post #13

If solar can't make it in Nevada without subsidies, the industry has a big problem. Nevada's population is mostly around Las Vegas, which is at 36° latitude and has 294 sunny days a year. It doesn't get much better than that. Utilities are still buying back power, just at wholesale rates. You can still use the power yourself and buy less at retail rates. Or you can get some of Tesla's batteries and store it for night…

Thanks, this analysis puts it all in context for a foreigner who has read the original article as 'governor has long supported solar, and then stupidly changed his mind'.

It actually doesn't, because it omits the fact that _every_ energy provider is subsidised, not just solar ones. A level playing field would imply no subsidies across the board or subsidies for all.

Re: SolarCity Will Eliminate Over 550 Job Due to State’s Anti-Rooftop Solar Decision

#63
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best legal action is SolarCity (and others) to sue the State of Nevada over loss of business. Is that possible?

[deleted]

It is in fact, possibly unconstitutional for a state to change laws to impair existing contracts.

Re: SolarCity Will Eliminate Over 550 Job Due to State’s Anti-Rooftop Solar Decision

#65
post #13

If solar can't make it in Nevada without subsidies, the industry has a big problem. Nevada's population is mostly around Las Vegas, which is at 36° latitude and has 294 sunny days a year. It doesn't get much better than that. Utilities are still buying back power, just at wholesale rates. You can still use the power yourself and buy less at retail rates. Or you can get some of Tesla's batteries and store it for night…

Other energy industries receive billions of subsidies. An industry at its very infancy could use subsidies to become more efficient and lift off the ground.

We don't need to sponsor the most economical form of energy, we need one that is renewable and does not pollute on a mammoth scale. This is more economic in the long-run.

Re: SolarCity Will Eliminate Over 550 Job Due to State’s Anti-Rooftop Solar Decision

#66

This article seems to have a more thorough explanation: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-this-sunny-state-trying-... snip ----------------------- A little-understood billing mechanism called net metering is at the heart of the Nevada controversy. Net metering means that residential and commercial solar customers are billed for their “net” energy consumption. They are allowed to send back to the grid the electricit…

Wow, that's a long reach to get to the OP's "de facto ban on rooftop solar".

If we take the OP at face value, then, it seems to be declaring that solar energy is completely impractical, and can't survive without life support.

I realize that other forms of energy generation are all subsidized in various ways, so it's clearly not as serious as my above interpretation, but still, it doesn't speak well of solar.

Re: SolarCity Will Eliminate Over 550 Job Due to State’s Anti-Rooftop Solar Decision

#67
post #13

If solar can't make it in Nevada without subsidies, the industry has a big problem. Nevada's population is mostly around Las Vegas, which is at 36° latitude and has 294 sunny days a year. It doesn't get much better than that. Utilities are still buying back power, just at wholesale rates. You can still use the power yourself and buy less at retail rates. Or you can get some of Tesla's batteries and store it for night…

It is not really about subsidies in this case. It is about a change to Net metering and the addition of a new fixed monthly fee just for solar users.

Fixed fees can significantly affect the cost of solar and some reports have this fee as high as $40/month[1]. The fact that they have also made this retroactive to existing solar customers adds a lot of uncertainty to the market as well. That can't help from a sales perspective.

[1] http://cleantechnica.com/2015/12/28/nevada-solar-fee-retroac...

Re: SolarCity Will Eliminate Over 550 Job Due to State’s Anti-Rooftop Solar Decision

#68
Somewhat off-topic. I'm all for solar, but there are some nasty practices out there with the "free" installs (lease). To maximize energy-harvesting potential, many "free" solar installers don't seem to care at all about ruining the look of nice houses, for example stuff like this [1], reducing the value of the home and increasing the time to sell. There are many horror stories about unexpected liens on homes [2] preventing a sale and/or refinancing. I'll jump on solar as soon as they make affordable panels that resemble shingles (they exist, I know [3], but expensive)

[1] http://www.greensunnj.com/resource/1430381659000/Bad_Princet...

[2] http://watchdog.org/212170/surprise-solar-liens/

[3] http://cleantechnica.com/2015/02/08/solar-shingles-renewable...

Re: SolarCity Will Eliminate Over 550 Job Due to State’s Anti-Rooftop Solar Decision

#69
post #43

What was the anti solar decision? The article doesn't seem to say.

It has to do with net metering rates, that is how much indidivuals and small business get paid for putting electricity back into the grid for others to use. See http://www.utilitydive.com/news/nevada-regulators-approve-ne... (disclaimer: I'm co-founder of the linked news site)

Interesting. This Utility Dive article points out that the rate change is to be phased in over four years. It's not a cliff. That should mitigate large-scale sudden incentive changes.

Where I live the electric energy company has separate rates for energy and for distribution. I think it's like that everywhere.

In the most naive pricing model net metering ignores that distinction and simply run the meter backwards when local production exceeds local consumption.

In the second most naive pricing model, the local customer would credit for energy cost, but not distribution, when local production exceeds consumption.

Neither of those are completely fair: the first doesn't gain the utility a return on their distribution infrastructure investment, and the second pays the utility too much. Why too much? Around here we pay a level distribution fee that covers both the long-haul lines from Georgian Bay and the shorter haul from the local coal plant. Locally generated electricity doesn't use the long-haul distribution system.

What's needed is a pricing model that ...

  a) maintains incentives to build out new generation (rooftop, etc.)
  b) makes incentives to create a new "smart grid" distribution system.
I fear that loud political posturing (Jobs!!! Monopolists!!!) isn't helping get this right.

But naive models, in a world that can have companies like Enron disrupting those models, are also not good enough.

For example, naive net metering -- backward running meters -- is not as favorable to Tesla's battery business as a dual-rate system. The return on a battery investment needs to come from that margin.

Re: SolarCity Will Eliminate Over 550 Job Due to State’s Anti-Rooftop Solar Decision

#70
Seems like they need a middle ground - not selling at wholesale prices or full retail. Putting the price at wholesale doesn't take into account the costs for the homeowner (or a 3rd party company like SolarCity) to invest in solar panels. Selling at retail doesn't take into account cost of grid maintenance for the power companies.

It also doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they charge higher fees to connect to the grid.

Definitely seems like a big win, short term, for the power companies. It seems like a big lose for renewables. Everyone seems to focused on whether it's perfectly fair or not - whereas I would say the goal of getting to environmentally friendly energy must weigh into the discuss - but hey, that's me.

Side note: I would be curious how much grid maintenance costs the power companies relative to their other costs.

Post reply on HN