Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness • Hacker News Board

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#171

Post by throwaway7767 » Fri, Jan 08, 2016, 11:17 AM UTC

sjclemmy wrote: post #166

When I was young and fresh out of college, I earned £8000 per annum and attempted to support a non-working partner and a small child. The idea of time vs money was irrelevant. I did not have enough money to live on. I would work as much as possible to get more money, and it still wasn't enough to live on. Fast forward to now where I have enough money not to bother about budgeting day to day and there is still enough…

Absolutely, there is a point below which people just don't have the luxury to not take any extra work they can.

There is, however, also a large group of people who could have more free time but choose to work more because they prefer to own more stuff to having more free time.

I work an 80% job (4-day work weeks) because I have reached the point where I don't really need more money. I don't consider myself rich, but with my spending patterns I don't need to worry about a daily budget anymore, and I have cash leftover to save every month. A lot of people are genuinely surprised by this decision, even though they work the same kind of job as me and therefore many of them likely have a similar financial situation.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#172

Post by lr4444lr » Fri, Jan 08, 2016, 11:35 AM UTC

sjclemmy wrote: post #166

When I was young and fresh out of college, I earned £8000 per annum and attempted to support a non-working partner and a small child. The idea of time vs money was irrelevant. I did not have enough money to live on. I would work as much as possible to get more money, and it still wasn't enough to live on. Fast forward to now where I have enough money not to bother about budgeting day to day and there is still enough…

But to be fair, and this won't be a popular comment, but I'm asking honestly, why did you take on a non working partner and child fresh out of college? You evidently have great character to overcome, and I don't know the UK system, but these would be impossible burdens for most middle class Americans before the age of at least 25, and likely put long term if not permanent damping factors on their career growth to be able to get to where you are now.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#173

Post by lmm » Fri, Jan 08, 2016, 11:38 AM UTC

voltagex_ wrote: post #72

orthoganol wrote: post #18

I've shunned founding startups or working at startups for the last ~3 years, and instead worked 15-20 hr/wk usually remotely. Time is your greatest asset, personally and professionally. It's how you stay abreast of the great opportunities of our time. You need that freedom to explore things that pique your interest or move you. Founding a startup means becoming mostly blind to the other great opportunities, which is…

Being able to work remotely and at 20-40 hours a week would change my life - seriously. I know there is lots of information around on becoming a freelancer, but do you have any particular insights?

Getting to 40 hours/week is trivial (or rather, the difficulty is all on the emotional side) - you walk out the door after 8 hours every day, and you do it consistently.

Getting down to 20 is much harder, as is getting remote work - all I can suggest for that is being upfront about it, and only working in positions/contracts that are explicitly remote-first.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#174

Post by adrianN » Fri, Jan 08, 2016, 11:44 AM UTC

throwaway7767 wrote: post #171

sjclemmy wrote: post #166

When I was young and fresh out of college, I earned £8000 per annum and attempted to support a non-working partner and a small child. The idea of time vs money was irrelevant. I did not have enough money to live on. I would work as much as possible to get more money, and it still wasn't enough to live on. Fast forward to now where I have enough money not to bother about budgeting day to day and there is still enough…

Absolutely, there is a point below which people just don't have the luxury to not take any extra work they can. There is, however, also a large group of people who could have more free time but choose to work more because they prefer to own more stuff to having more free time. I work an 80% job (4-day work weeks) because I have reached the point where I don't really need more money. I don't consider myself rich, but…

There is also a group of people who would like to work less but are in an industry that doesn't really offer part time jobs.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#175

Post by rglullis » Fri, Jan 08, 2016, 11:47 AM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #172

sjclemmy wrote: post #166

When I was young and fresh out of college, I earned £8000 per annum and attempted to support a non-working partner and a small child. The idea of time vs money was irrelevant. I did not have enough money to live on. I would work as much as possible to get more money, and it still wasn't enough to live on. Fast forward to now where I have enough money not to bother about budgeting day to day and there is still enough…

But to be fair, and this won't be a popular comment, but I'm asking honestly, why did you take on a non working partner and child fresh out of college? You evidently have great character to overcome, and I don't know the UK system, but these would be impossible burdens for most middle class Americans before the age of at least 25, and likely put long term if not permanent damping factors on their career growth to be…

> most middle class Americans before the age of 25.

That applies only if you live in any of the big urban centers, where the idea that living well until your 30's and even 40's with roommates just to be able to make do in shitty apartments that cost $1000+, not to mention the student loans to pay for the useless degree in humanities. Or alternatively, to choose med/law school and keep deferring the high-income years.

Move to any part of flyover country, choose a career that does not require the stupid treadmill of higher-education and it will be pretty possible to start raising a family at age 25.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#176

Post by TeMPOraL » Fri, Jan 08, 2016, 11:49 AM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #172

sjclemmy wrote: post #166

When I was young and fresh out of college, I earned £8000 per annum and attempted to support a non-working partner and a small child. The idea of time vs money was irrelevant. I did not have enough money to live on. I would work as much as possible to get more money, and it still wasn't enough to live on. Fast forward to now where I have enough money not to bother about budgeting day to day and there is still enough…

But to be fair, and this won't be a popular comment, but I'm asking honestly, why did you take on a non working partner and child fresh out of college? You evidently have great character to overcome, and I don't know the UK system, but these would be impossible burdens for most middle class Americans before the age of at least 25, and likely put long term if not permanent damping factors on their career growth to be…

Not GP, but my guess is - because people are not robots. Not many people are responsible enough to plan out their lives and then stick to that plan. Also, you sometimes end up in those situations despite your best efforts at being "responsible". Either because of love, unplanned pregnancy... or sudden loss of ability to work of the other partner (think medical issues).

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#177

Post by darkr » Fri, Jan 08, 2016, 12:00 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #172

sjclemmy wrote: post #166

When I was young and fresh out of college, I earned £8000 per annum and attempted to support a non-working partner and a small child. The idea of time vs money was irrelevant. I did not have enough money to live on. I would work as much as possible to get more money, and it still wasn't enough to live on. Fast forward to now where I have enough money not to bother about budgeting day to day and there is still enough…

But to be fair, and this won't be a popular comment, but I'm asking honestly, why did you take on a non working partner and child fresh out of college? You evidently have great character to overcome, and I don't know the UK system, but these would be impossible burdens for most middle class Americans before the age of at least 25, and likely put long term if not permanent damping factors on their career growth to be…

The welfare state[1], would have provided housing benefit (possibly council housing), child benefit, child care, income support for low earners, tax credits, free school meals, free dental/vision etc. On top of this we have the NHS, and a reasonable state education system.

Though I'm guessing that the parent (in both senses of the word) went through this quite a while ago - since the 80's, successive conservative governments have made cuts to welfare programmes/spending, which has been responsible at least in part for bringing social mobility to a standstill in the UK.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state_in_the_United_Ki...

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#178

Post by TeMPOraL » Fri, Jan 08, 2016, 12:20 PM UTC

jvz wrote: post #121

danielam wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you meant "diminishing marginal utility". The law of diminishing marginal returns concerns employees not goods consumed. Though not specifically relevant to your post, this "law" doesn't always hold. Some goods have a utility threshold that must be crossed before they become valuable or increase in utility (e.g., various medicines and antibiotics). Money operates similarly, i.e., its utility does not necessar…

Even in a (totally unrealistic) scenario where N dollars are "useless" to you, but N+1 get you something of great value, it's not true that the (N+1)th dollar has greater marginal utility than any of the other N dollars, because you need all those other dollars to buy the thing. In other words, the previous N dollars weren't actually useless: they enabled you to obtain the (N+1)th dollar. Without them, that (N+1)th d…

Sometimes there's a psychological difference though. Say you have $8 in your pocket, and there's a movie you like to see in the cinema nearby. The ticket costs $10. You know you won't get that $2 in a reasonable timeframe - maybe it's your only evening off, so even if you get some more cash tomorrow you won't have a chance to see the movie. Maybe you also don't feel like begging strangers for change. In this situation, you may find yourself wishing for those $2 very much, and after realizing you can't get them, you'll say "fuck it, I may as well spend my $8 on some pizza or beer" and then do so.

Maybe that last $2 don't have greater marginal value than the $8 in your pocket, but that $8 loses its perceived value the moment you realize you won't get additional $2 in time.

It's not a hypothetical situation, by the way. I've been in those several times in the past, and followed exactly the same pattern of emotional reasoning.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#179

Post by sjclemmy » Fri, Jan 08, 2016, 12:34 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #172

sjclemmy wrote: post #166

When I was young and fresh out of college, I earned £8000 per annum and attempted to support a non-working partner and a small child. The idea of time vs money was irrelevant. I did not have enough money to live on. I would work as much as possible to get more money, and it still wasn't enough to live on. Fast forward to now where I have enough money not to bother about budgeting day to day and there is still enough…

But to be fair, and this won't be a popular comment, but I'm asking honestly, why did you take on a non working partner and child fresh out of college? You evidently have great character to overcome, and I don't know the UK system, but these would be impossible burdens for most middle class Americans before the age of at least 25, and likely put long term if not permanent damping factors on their career growth to be…

The pithy answer is 'life is complicated, confusing and difficult'.

The slightly longer answer is; I was young, I was (and still am) in love, it's my child (and she's great btw. Aced all her exams, goes to a top University /brag) I felt it was the right thing to do, and, time has borne that out.

I agree it has put a damping factor on my career, but, you know what? (and this goes for a lot of commentary on HN) life is not just about making money and having a good career.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#180

Post by rpgmaker » Fri, Jan 08, 2016, 12:37 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #172

sjclemmy wrote: post #166

When I was young and fresh out of college, I earned £8000 per annum and attempted to support a non-working partner and a small child. The idea of time vs money was irrelevant. I did not have enough money to live on. I would work as much as possible to get more money, and it still wasn't enough to live on. Fast forward to now where I have enough money not to bother about budgeting day to day and there is still enough…

But to be fair, and this won't be a popular comment, but I'm asking honestly, why did you take on a non working partner and child fresh out of college? You evidently have great character to overcome, and I don't know the UK system, but these would be impossible burdens for most middle class Americans before the age of at least 25, and likely put long term if not permanent damping factors on their career growth to be…

Sounds like he fell in love with someone who already had a kid.