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RemixOS – Android for the desktop

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Re: RemixOS – Android for the desktop

#71

Post by 0xFFC »

RivieraKid wrote: post #49

Well I'm sceptical you can make a good desktop OS by modifying Android. Major desktop OSs (including their ecosystems!) have been developed for decades, there's a lot of depth in their functionality, flexibility, different use cases. Two of the main issues are that apps designed for Android touch devices suck on desktop and that the Android SDK is very limited compared to what deskop OSs offer. Don't get me wrong, I…

About the sdk point I completely agree. Unless you want somewhat shallow os There is no way for Android sdk to compete with real world desktop os.

By shallow I mean something which don't have much functionality. This is not absolutely bad thing.yes most of powey users will not use that ,but for people who want to chat, browse, and use Skype this is not a bad this.but the point is these kind of users already leaving desktop after tablets/phone revolution.

Re: RemixOS – Android for the desktop

#72

Post by mintplant »

derefr wrote: post #69
morganvachon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see package managers as a source of some problems of linux: Package maintainers are a unneeded middleman between the writers of the software and you, package managers interact with the whole system, scattering files around the whole filesystem... It sounds like you'd enjoy Slackware's approach to package management. Zero dependency resolution, packages are built from the source tarball with little or no patching…

The parent is advocating for the Slackware approach—just take whatever's in the upstreams and slam it together—but installed into a container (so all that slamming doesn't conflict with anything), and distributed as a container image. This is effectively the 'modern Linux app philosophy', as supported by systemd et al. It's similar in concept to app bundles, but it also assumes automatic sandboxing. It's great for ga…

> The parent is advocating for the Slackware approach—just take whatever's in the upstreams and slam it together—but installed into a container (so all that slamming doesn't conflict with anything), and distributed as a container image.

Have you heard of Nix and NixOS? It doesn't use containers for this, but each package's tree is kept isolated from the others'.

https://nixos.org/nixos/about.html

Re: RemixOS – Android for the desktop

#74

Post by chc4 »

voltagex_ wrote: post #29
nextos wrote: post #15

As a hardcore Linux user, I'm really torn about Android. On the one hand, it has created a nice software ecosystem by pushing a consistent set of APIs. Linux desktop applications were never remarkable except for a few ones. I think fragmentation into a myriad of frameworks led to this. The only 2 X11 applications I use are firefox and zathura. On the other hand, too much stuff has been redone in Android. It's too for…

Every year I go look where Maemo/Meego/Mer/Tizen (whatever it's been rebranded as) got up to. The N900 remains the greatest phone I ever owned. I had high hopes for Jolla but I doubt they're really out of their financial troubles - they owe me a very expensive tablet, currently. By the time it's delivered it will be obsolete.

It certainly didn't help that their phones aren't authorized to be sold for the US. That's probably a very big segment of the pro-Linux poweruser demographic...

Re: RemixOS – Android for the desktop

#75

Post by RRRA »

legulere wrote: post #23
nextos wrote: post #15

As a hardcore Linux user, I'm really torn about Android. On the one hand, it has created a nice software ecosystem by pushing a consistent set of APIs. Linux desktop applications were never remarkable except for a few ones. I think fragmentation into a myriad of frameworks led to this. The only 2 X11 applications I use are firefox and zathura. On the other hand, too much stuff has been redone in Android. It's too for…

> I would prefer less app-ification, more package management. I would argue for the opposite: One problem with linux is that you can't run untrusted software without it getting the same access as the user. That's exactly what the appification is. I see package managers as a source of some problems of linux: Package maintainers are a unneeded middleman between the writers of the software and you, package managers inte…

I think many distribution* are evolving toward an even better compartmentalization with containers / VM, I just wish we'd work more toward than and indeed stop having to package apps for every distributions...

* QubesOS, SubgraphOS, NixOS(?), etc.

Re: RemixOS – Android for the desktop

#76

Post by tobbyb »

I think the potential for the Android desktop is huge, and can threaten Intel in a serious way. Look at the Amazon Fire TV equipped with a Mediatek 64 bit quad core A72 + A53 SoC. The same SoC is scheduled to be in Chromebooks shortly.

This tiny 4 inch by 1 inch box can play 4k at 30fps, provide super fast internet browsing, Facebook, Youtube, Office apps, video conferencing and play Android 3D titles well. And it costs 64 Pounds or 90 USD! It geekbenches 1600/3500 which is pretty respectable compared to an Intel i3 which retails for around $150 just for the CPU. Why spend anything more for grandma's, mum's or a just a general PC. It also has good support for Kodi so no need for expensive HTPCs.

So here is a 60 GBP device doing a of lot of thing a traditional basic PC or laptop does at a fraction of the price, power, noise and size! This is disruptive.

The only thing holding it back is the absence of proper desktop support in Android and the relatively closed nature especially GPU of the Arm ecosystem. Also the PC ecosystem is accustomed to a much more open hardware and software playing field, and the driver scenario for ARM and Google's control of Android itself can be problematic.

Android is currently completely touch oriented and even though you can attach a keyboard and mouse, as the recent Ars review highlights [1] there are quite a few rough edges.

Remix OS is a step in that direction but it appears some of the issues are serious enough that only Google can address. A better situation is ARM being more open, Linux is already well supported on ARM so if it opens up the drivers in good faith without the back and forth of licensor and licensee that open source developers deal with, desktop need not depend just on Android.

[1] http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/12/android-on-the-deskto...

Re: RemixOS – Android for the desktop

#77

Post by _lce0 »

BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #56
nextos wrote: post #15

As a hardcore Linux user, I'm really torn about Android. On the one hand, it has created a nice software ecosystem by pushing a consistent set of APIs. Linux desktop applications were never remarkable except for a few ones. I think fragmentation into a myriad of frameworks led to this. The only 2 X11 applications I use are firefox and zathura. On the other hand, too much stuff has been redone in Android. It's too for…

Android has been friendly toward removing the mothership since day one. Anyone can deliver APKs using either a homegrown app store (see Amazon's App Store app) or by just letting the user download APKs from the browser. The problem is that most app developers currently -only- distribute their app via Google Play, as it's the primary distribution channel that devices tend to come with. This isn't a complete lock-in, s…

There's always fdroid!

https://f-droid.org/

Re: RemixOS – Android for the desktop

#78

Post by krakensden »

Someone1234 wrote: post #20
nextos wrote: post #15

As a hardcore Linux user, I'm really torn about Android. On the one hand, it has created a nice software ecosystem by pushing a consistent set of APIs. Linux desktop applications were never remarkable except for a few ones. I think fragmentation into a myriad of frameworks led to this. The only 2 X11 applications I use are firefox and zathura. On the other hand, too much stuff has been redone in Android. It's too for…

I cannot help but wonder if "apps" aren't going to eventually replace package managers. That's certainly what Docker-like containers try to do. It might sound crazy when you consider some of the services typically installed with a package manager but ultimately there's no reason why an "app" cannot run in root, many root packages aren't actually installing drivers, they're only root for historical reasons (e.g. being…

I mean, I guess, but they tend to all be built out of packages assembled by a traditional package manager. Corralling and testing a bunch of things from a bunch of different sources and making sure they work together is hard. Plus, C library wrangling is becoming a bit of a lost art.

Re: RemixOS – Android for the desktop

#79

Post by tagrun »

legulere wrote: post #23
nextos wrote: post #15

As a hardcore Linux user, I'm really torn about Android. On the one hand, it has created a nice software ecosystem by pushing a consistent set of APIs. Linux desktop applications were never remarkable except for a few ones. I think fragmentation into a myriad of frameworks led to this. The only 2 X11 applications I use are firefox and zathura. On the other hand, too much stuff has been redone in Android. It's too for…

> I would prefer less app-ification, more package management. I would argue for the opposite: One problem with linux is that you can't run untrusted software without it getting the same access as the user. That's exactly what the appification is. I see package managers as a source of some problems of linux: Package maintainers are a unneeded middleman between the writers of the software and you, package managers inte…

> I would argue for the opposite: One problem with linux is that you can't run untrusted software without it getting the same access as the user. That's exactly what the appification is. > I see package managers as a source of some problems of linux: Package maintainers are a unneeded middleman between the writers of the software and you, package managers interact with the whole system, scattering files around the whole filesystem and running scripts as root when installing/uninstalling packages.

High-standards imposed by distros (see for example: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/) and tedious work of packagers has been a very important part of the free software ecosystem, and kept GNU/Linux snoopware-, malware- and virus-free and trustable [1]. They are far from "unneeded middleman".

Here's a very recent example of this system at work: Chromium sneaks a binary blob which secretly listens to your microphone and sends data to Google: https://lwn.net/Articles/648392/

This is just one instance, there has been many many examples of this.

There are just so many, let me say, shady, "apps" out there, so I don't install anything from Google Play Store on my smartphone. On my desktop/laptop however, I feel safe installing whatever I need from the official repositories. I personally don't want to use a distro to which "app" developers from Android ecosystem can freely push their programs (and updates to them).

> Applications being files/folders that can be installed/uninstalled with cp/rm seems way more unixy to me.

But that's essentially what a package manager does for you, although it takes away your freedom to screw up in the process. In GNU/Linux, it essentially 1) protects you from screwing up your system accidentally 2) allows you trust system-wide binaries (assuming that your distro is trustable).

App Stores are also package managers, so I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here.

====

[1] I'm excluding Ubuntu here. Ubuntu comes with spyware, spies on you by default and monetizes the privacy and trust of its users [2]. I don't trust it, I don't use it, and I recommend against it.

[2] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.en.html

Re: RemixOS – Android for the desktop

#80

Post by [deleted] »

tobbyb wrote: post #76

I think the potential for the Android desktop is huge, and can threaten Intel in a serious way. Look at the Amazon Fire TV equipped with a Mediatek 64 bit quad core A72 + A53 SoC. The same SoC is scheduled to be in Chromebooks shortly. This tiny 4 inch by 1 inch box can play 4k at 30fps, provide super fast internet browsing, Facebook, Youtube, Office apps, video conferencing and play Android 3D titles well. And it co…

[deleted]
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