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Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#141

Post by caskance »

AlexandrB wrote: post #101
caskance wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who cares to look it up knows. Of course, there's always the chance that Microsoft is lying in their documentation, but if you mistrust them that much, you probably shouldn't use their software even if they claim to not collect any information.

> Anyone who cares to look it up knows. Last I looked Microsoft's privacy policy was vague enough that it could include almost anything and everything on a PC as well as whatever Windows can infer about your local network. > Of course, there's always the chance that Microsoft is lying in their documentation, but if you mistrust them that much, you probably shouldn't use their software even if they claim to not collec…

I'm talking about MSDN, not their privacy policy.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#142

Post by caskance »

talmand wrote: post #91
caskance wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do offer those options. People would just rather complain that the free upgrade they got doesn't have features they want - but apparently not enough to actually pay for them.

Please share what these options are and how to implement them. All I've seen so far are lists of hoops you have to go through that may eventually be changed back with a future update.

Your description is vaguely worded enough to cover every method of configuring software.

If you want specific info, I think Microsoft's documentation is quite clear and comprehensive: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85...

Not sure why you need me to share that instead of taking five seconds to look it up on google. Guess you don't care as much about privacy as you like to pretend.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#143

Post by caskance »

lewisl9029 wrote: post #79
caskance wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do offer those options. People would just rather complain that the free upgrade they got doesn't have features they want - but apparently not enough to actually pay for them.

I assume you mean the Enterprise version? Last time I checked that wasn't something individual consumers can just go out and buy. But regardless of that, from Microsoft's perspective, does it make any sense to not offer the option to disable telemetry on all versions? From what I see, all it's doing is giving them bad publicity while driving potential users away to other platforms. And for what? Probably a few basis…

Both the enterprise and educational versions offer you full control. Consumer versions offer what I consider to be enough control, but obviously that's subjective.

If you offer the option to disable telemetry, some people will disable it. If there is any pattern to which people do this, and we all know there is, it introduces sampling bias and casts aspersions on any conclusions you draw from that data.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#144

Post by caskance »

dantillberg wrote: post #85
caskance wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complain about the feature all you want, but pretending that it's not well documented or configurable is just silly. https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85...

Microsoft is pretty good at catering to the desires of enterprises, so you're right, but in the linked article I see at [0] that with a typical consumer license of Windows, I can reduce the "telemetry" level, but only to "Basic" from the default level of "Enhanced" (side note: how is it "enhanced" if it's the default?). While the Enhanced level accounts for a lot of the usage-specific statistics detailed in TFA, Basi…

I'm objecting to the claim that users are "powerless to stop this [data collection] even if they knew what was happening, and they don't." To the contrary, it's very clear what is being collected and how to turn it off. As well as what you can't disable in cheaper versions, and which versions you need to buy in order to get that option.

Obviously consumers would like Microsoft to sell them a product with more features for cheaper. But that's no different from any business ever, yet people are throwing a shitfit all over the internet based primarily on misinformation.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#145

Post by caskance »

dantillberg wrote: post #114
serge2k wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That list looks less like valuable user data and more like basic telemetry data that is mostly useful to anyone trying to provide a good OS experience.

I did intentionally write "valuable" instead of "intrusive," as you're right -- that is very useful data to aid Microsoft in developing Windows. But as a user, I ought to be able to at least opt out . But typical Windows users cannot, even if they might think that they are by downgrading from Enhanced to Basic.

I think the fact that they call it "basic" rather than "none" makes it abundantly clear that some basic data is still being collected, and you're not completely opting out. Surely there's a limit on how stupid a user can be before you're allowed to stop designing for them.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#147

Post by marssaxman »

serge2k wrote: post #108
dantillberg wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is pretty good at catering to the desires of enterprises, so you're right, but in the linked article I see at [0] that with a typical consumer license of Windows, I can reduce the "telemetry" level, but only to "Basic" from the default level of "Enhanced" (side note: how is it "enhanced" if it's the default?). While the Enhanced level accounts for a lot of the usage-specific statistics detailed in TFA, Basi…

That list looks less like valuable user data and more like basic telemetry data that is mostly useful to anyone trying to provide a good OS experience.

Is it my machine, or is it theirs?

If they want to do research they can use their own resources.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#148

Post by melted »

thomnottom wrote: post #112
AlexandrB wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMHO, the GNOME and Unity desktops are mature enough to handle 90% of users' needs, the only exception is gaming but that gap is also rapidly getting filled. This is not really true. For example, high-dpi is still a complete crapshoot, font rendering is often bad bordering on terrible. Unity itself is a usability disaster that hides some of an applications most important elements (menu bar) most of the time. Networ…

Interesting, because I find dealing with high DPI significantly better on Ubuntu than Windows. And Unity works well for me, my wife, and daughter.

I switched my parents to Ubuntu about 5 years ago. They didn't even blink, and for me maintenance is easier since I can even upgrade the OS over ssh. Zero problems so far.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#150

Post by ajross »

PuffinBlue wrote: post #98
rms_returns wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Open-source, meanwhile, has struggled to provide a basic desktop environment to rival the best from five years ago. Open-source is pretty young on the desktop arena. Consider that Microsoft ruled the entire nineties and tried all tricks in the book to sabotage linux. Despite this, the fact that linux desktops are even available today is nothing short of a miracle! IMHO, the GNOME and Unity desktops are mature enoug…

> Can you cite a single widely used software that doesn't have a FOSS alternative which works on Linux. Yes. Photoshop and Lightroom. And before you all jump in and slather me with suggestions of Darktable, Shotwell, GIMP, ASP, RAWtherapee et al please know that NONE of these are a true substitute for Lightroom and Photoshop. Individually you can put together a decent work flow with Linux programmes but it's slow. Pa…

> Individually you can put together a decent work flow with Linux programmes but it's slow

So... you're saying that there are substitutes, but that they aren't as fast, you don't want to use them and that (getting back to the discussion) you don't view the privacy concerns with commercial OSes as sufficient incentive.

If so, why not just say that and avoid all the pointless flamage.

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