Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness • Hacker News Board

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#21

Post by sanderjd » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 9:24 PM UTC

orthoganol wrote: post #18

I've shunned founding startups or working at startups for the last ~3 years, and instead worked 15-20 hr/wk usually remotely. Time is your greatest asset, personally and professionally. It's how you stay abreast of the great opportunities of our time. You need that freedom to explore things that pique your interest or move you. Founding a startup means becoming mostly blind to the other great opportunities, which is…

Out of curiosity: do you do contracting / consulting work, or have you found a stable 15-20 hr/wk job? I think the latter sounds excellent, while the former sounds stressful.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#22

Post by dudul » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 9:24 PM UTC

FreedomToCreate wrote: post #4

I wonder where this puts founders. We sacrifice a lot of time and money (missed vacations, family time as well as salaries) in the attempt to create something we can call our own. I always debate if it worth it, but there just this excitement associated with the unknown potential of what you are doing that keeps me going...and happy. Sometimes though I do wish I could take that family vacation, or purchase my own apa…

A founder who doesn't take vacations or spend time with their family will most likely go crazy and fail.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#23

Post by roymurdock » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 9:25 PM UTC

I searched for the phrase "diminishing marginal returns" but could not find it in the article which seems like a bit of an omission.

This is a fundamental economic concept - the more of something you have, the less value you derive from each incremental unit.

So, based on personal preferences, once you reach a certain level of income you will start to substitute away from labor (income) towards leisure/free time (non-market activities such as hobbies, cooking, parenting, gaming, chilling).

The study data shows this pretty clearly (if I'm reading it correctly) - in Study 2b (wealthy people polled at a science museum) the median household income was $100-149k and the "% Time Oriented" was 69%. In Study 4 (online panel members who get free internet in exchange for survey participation) the median household income was $75-85k and the "% Time Oriented" was 46%.

The implied result that upper middle class folk are able to spend more time on leisure and are therefore happier on average than regular middle class folk doesn't seem too groundbreaking.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#24

Post by liberacy » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 9:25 PM UTC

A simple association doesn't tell you much.

One perfectly plausible explanation is that people who already have plenty of money tend to value time over having a little bit more money. And people who already have plenty of money are happier than people who are a bit short on money.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#25

Post by theseatoms » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 9:26 PM UTC

roymurdock wrote: post #23

I searched for the phrase "diminishing marginal returns" but could not find it in the article which seems like a bit of an omission. This is a fundamental economic concept - the more of something you have, the less value you derive from each incremental unit. So, based on personal preferences, once you reach a certain level of income you will start to substitute away from labor (income) towards leisure/free time (non…

The corresponding colloquialism is "Variety is the spice of life."

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#26

Post by hellameta » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 9:28 PM UTC

orthoganol wrote: post #18

I've shunned founding startups or working at startups for the last ~3 years, and instead worked 15-20 hr/wk usually remotely. Time is your greatest asset, personally and professionally. It's how you stay abreast of the great opportunities of our time. You need that freedom to explore things that pique your interest or move you. Founding a startup means becoming mostly blind to the other great opportunities, which is…

> which is why I'm so reluctant to do a startup, unless I think it's "the one."

IYO indeed. That you have found your way of doing things is wonderful and also incredibly lucky. That you consider opportunity cost a universally objective measure is complete fantasy though.

TL;DR: Always be highly skeptical of anyone claiming their way of life is the right way to live.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#27

Post by jerguismi » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 9:28 PM UTC

orthoganol wrote: post #18

I've shunned founding startups or working at startups for the last ~3 years, and instead worked 15-20 hr/wk usually remotely. Time is your greatest asset, personally and professionally. It's how you stay abreast of the great opportunities of our time. You need that freedom to explore things that pique your interest or move you. Founding a startup means becoming mostly blind to the other great opportunities, which is…

Weird stance. Startups are not really about money. They are about greater risk.

For a startup founder it is not unusual to spend a lot of time, and still make zero money. And it is also possible to spend only couple of years, and make so much money that you can leisurely work for couple of days a month, and go surfing for the rest of the month. And do that same thing for the rest of your life.

As an employee you will surely make some money always, and only spend certain amount of time. As a freelancer/contractor typically your risk is a bit greater (you might not get good gigs or something), but as a reward you can earn more money for less time.

So it is not about whether you value your time or money. It is about your risk appetite. It is not that uncommon to do this kind of "lifestyle business" thingie where the primary goal is freedom and time, not necessarily money.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#28

Post by binarysolo » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 9:29 PM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #21

orthoganol wrote: post #18

I've shunned founding startups or working at startups for the last ~3 years, and instead worked 15-20 hr/wk usually remotely. Time is your greatest asset, personally and professionally. It's how you stay abreast of the great opportunities of our time. You need that freedom to explore things that pique your interest or move you. Founding a startup means becoming mostly blind to the other great opportunities, which is…

Out of curiosity: do you do contracting / consulting work, or have you found a stable 15-20 hr/wk job? I think the latter sounds excellent, while the former sounds stressful.

1 datapoint: I was doing 15-20hr/wk consulting the past few years and making as much as my FT CTO/COO position now and the stress of constant sourcing definitely was stressful (but the extra hours and lifestyle of commandeering your schedule/location was a third dimension to optimize).

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#29

Post by whiddershins » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 9:30 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #20

orthoganol wrote: post #18

I've shunned founding startups or working at startups for the last ~3 years, and instead worked 15-20 hr/wk usually remotely. Time is your greatest asset, personally and professionally. It's how you stay abreast of the great opportunities of our time. You need that freedom to explore things that pique your interest or move you. Founding a startup means becoming mostly blind to the other great opportunities, which is…

What about founding a startup to try to make big money and then have the time to explore things?

There's a poor risk/reward ratio there.

It takes way too long for the average startup to be successful, and the overwhelming majority of them aren't successful enough to provide the economic freedom you are referring to.

If you can love the chase of a startup, and love the thrill and long hours, great!

If you are doing it so you can have "more free time later" there are many many better strategies.

Re: Valuing time over money is associated with greater happiness

#30

Post by gf1 » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 9:30 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #20

orthoganol wrote: post #18

I've shunned founding startups or working at startups for the last ~3 years, and instead worked 15-20 hr/wk usually remotely. Time is your greatest asset, personally and professionally. It's how you stay abreast of the great opportunities of our time. You need that freedom to explore things that pique your interest or move you. Founding a startup means becoming mostly blind to the other great opportunities, which is…

What about founding a startup to try to make big money and then have the time to explore things?

There's still a massive risk. What if you put three years of your life into a startup that becomes defunct after all that time?

Then you've lost three years of your life and have to go somewhere else.

Sure, you gain knowledge and experience through that time, but joining another company would still take time to work your way through the ranks there. In that three years, you would've had a great head-start on both professional experience and financial health.

Food for thought. Your statement just assumes the startup will do well and that's not a guarantee. There isn't a guarantee a company you work for will be around forever either, but the likelihood is far greater.