The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan • Hacker News Board

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#101

Post by talmand » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 7:24 PM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #96

brk wrote: post #95

Really this just shows how corrupt and broken the entire entertainment ticketing stack is. TicketMaster, StubHub, etc., all prey on fans, and the fans ALLOW it by paying ridiculous fucking prices to attend events. We're long past the days of needing an entity like Ticketmaster to be in the middle of ticket transactions. And we're long past the days of needing to worry about ticket scalping if we actually have an effi…

> fans ALLOW it by paying ridiculous fucking prices to attend events No, fans have no choice. Entertainers allow it by using Ticketmaster. > We're long past the days of needing an entity like Ticketmaster to be in the middle of ticket transactions The greatest fear an event planner has is that they'll plan the event and no one will show up. Ticketmaster aggressively markets the events they're selling tickets for, whi…

So, to avoid having to do marketing themselves, or to hire a firm, the event planner goes with a possibly corrupt system that by all appearances the fans of the event despise?

I'm more of the mind that these things are so entrenched that neither fans or event planners have a choice.

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#102

Post by talmand » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 7:25 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #24

th0br0 wrote: post #21

Looks like "ticketsforless.com" got some great free PR (if they manage to spin the media on this) - from the FB comments: Jason Durbin · VP of Ticket Operations at Tickets For Less Jesse Sandler – I’m the VP of Ticket Operations at Tickets For Less. We’ve reached out to TheLeadSports.com and are trying to contact you. We have four seats for you in section 106 for Kobe’s last home game. Please contact me or our Presid…

Not exactly free if the tickets are going for $6,000 each, but still a genius move.

If I remember right, take into account its from the comments, the president of the company purchased the tickets. I doubt at 6k a ticket though.

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#103

Post by CPLX » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 7:27 PM UTC

etherealmachine wrote: post #84

eli wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but I think you'd have a hard time convincing a judge of that math.

Curious - why do you think that? The seller obviously sold the tickets for a higher price, and can be forced to give the buyer the price difference, allowing the buyer to buy new tickets at the new price, fulfilling the purpose of the original contract. Why do you think a judge would disagree?

It's not obvious they sold for a higher price, they may have used them or never had them. But the real problem is proving an actual loss. There was a contract to exchange X tickets for Y money. Nothing changed hands, the buyer didn't lose anything, there aren't any damages to sue for.

Obviously they could try a cause of action for lost opportunity to profit from the transaction from legal standpoint, but it's much harder to claim losses from hypothetical things that never happened than to unwind an actual transaction.

What if Kobe was injured and the price of the tickets plummeted for example? It's a stretch to argue that the buyer lost something tangible by relying on the sellers performance of the contract.

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#104

Post by AlexC04 » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 7:29 PM UTC

kin wrote: post #92

He's getting 4 free ticket from Budweiser in section 112 and 4 free tickets in section 106 personally delivered by the CEO of Tickets For Less. Now, Stubhub has apologized and promised to get him to the game. If I were him I'd deny the Stubhub tickets regardless of how good they are. Budweiser tickets are middle bottom level section (great view) while Tickets for Less are offering behind the backboard seats. Both are…

I've found this one in the comments:

  > Jason Durbin · VP of Ticket Operations at Tickets For Less
  > Jesse Sandler – I’m the VP of Ticket Operations at
  > Tickets For Less. We’ve reached out to
  > TheLeadSports.com and are trying to contact you.
  > We have four seats for you in section 106 for Kobe’s
  > last home game. Please contact me or our President Dan
  > Rouen at 913-685-3322.
  > Like · Reply · 1228 · 23 hrs

But where is the Budweiser comment?

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#105

Post by FireBeyond » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 7:30 PM UTC

eli wrote: post #82

joshuaheard wrote: post #44

That's clearly a breach of contract. The buyer could sue the seller for damages.

The buyer already got their money back, so what is the damage? Sure if the buyer booked a nonrefundable plane ticket in anticipation of going to the game, that would be something. Absent something like that, I'm not sure there's a case.

The damage is that "getting money back after the transaction wasn't finalized" wasn't a consensual part of the contract.

You buy a car from me. A -month- later I show up and say, "Yeah, sorry, I sold this car by accident, here's your money." and I take off with the car regardless of what you want to do, you have a case against me for theft.

Whether the buyer got his money back is irrelevant - that doesn't give the seller the retroactive ability to void the sale.

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#106

Post by diogenescynic » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 7:32 PM UTC

hotgoldminer wrote: post #6

ascagnel_ wrote: post #3

The better question is why SH allows sellers to cancel complete orders where payment has already been taken. Frankly, it's ridiculous that the seller had any input a month after the order was marked as confirmed, and I can only assume that payment was taken if SH was willing to issue a nearly $1,000 credit.

SH has no mechanism to ensure delivery of the ticket. The seller holds the ticket, so how can SH compel them to hand it over - short of not releasing the buyer's payment to the seller. Short being the operative word. SH is running a speculative marketplace against n% insurance fee on unfulfilled sales.

>SH has no mechanism to ensure delivery of the ticket...so how can SH compel them to hand it over

Sure they do, just don't release funds until the tracking number shows the tickets have been delivered or the PDF has been uploaded.

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#107

Post by FireBeyond » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 7:32 PM UTC

forrestthewoods wrote: post #71

If the seller changed their mind and pulled their tickets then StubHub should own up and say so. The tickets weren't listed "incorrectly". They were sold correctly but then the seller refused to forward the tickets when the price changed. StubHub and similar services should also guarantee ticket possession within 7 days. If you buy the tickets you get the tickets immediately. It's bullshit that you buy the tickets bu…

"What if the Lakers ticket seller had until the final week to deliver tickets? If they're expensive today they'll be even more expensive then!"

If it was a season-ticket holder (genuine or 'bought for bulk discount at resale'), they'll only get them from the Lakers 4 days prior to the game anyway.

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#108

Post by Lawtonfogle » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 7:34 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #64

hotgoldminer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SH has no mechanism to ensure delivery of the ticket. The seller holds the ticket, so how can SH compel them to hand it over - short of not releasing the buyer's payment to the seller. Short being the operative word. SH is running a speculative marketplace against n% insurance fee on unfulfilled sales.

Does Stubhub release the sellers information to the buyer? It looks to me like the buyer has a claim in contract against the seller for $5100. That's within the small claim limit in California.

This seems a lot like cancelling orders when an online system lists a $1999 product for only $19.99. Even if you already bought the product, if I catch it before the product is shipped, can I not cancel the order?

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#109

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 7:38 PM UTC

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #108

bradleyjg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Stubhub release the sellers information to the buyer? It looks to me like the buyer has a claim in contract against the seller for $5100. That's within the small claim limit in California.

This seems a lot like cancelling orders when an online system lists a $1999 product for only $19.99. Even if you already bought the product, if I catch it before the product is shipped, can I not cancel the order?

[deleted]

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#110

Post by eridius » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 7:40 PM UTC

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #108

bradleyjg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Stubhub release the sellers information to the buyer? It looks to me like the buyer has a claim in contract against the seller for $5100. That's within the small claim limit in California.

This seems a lot like cancelling orders when an online system lists a $1999 product for only $19.99. Even if you already bought the product, if I catch it before the product is shipped, can I not cancel the order?

That's not the same thing at all. Listing a $1999 product for only $19.99 is clearly a mistake, not intentional on the part of the seller, and it is obvious to any reasonable person that the buyer must know that this was a mistake when purchasing it.

On the other hand, listing a product for fair market value and then cancelling when the market value skyrockets after the sale is not at all reasonable behavior. I assume there's some part of contract law that covers this sort of thing (since a sale is a form of contract).