The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan • Hacker News Board

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#21

Post by th0br0 » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 3:27 PM UTC

Looks like "ticketsforless.com" got some great free PR (if they manage to spin the media on this) - from the FB comments:

  Jason Durbin · VP of Ticket Operations at Tickets For Less

  Jesse Sandler – I’m the VP of Ticket Operations at Tickets For Less. We’ve    reached out to TheLeadSports.com and are trying to contact you. We have four seats for you in section 106 for Kobe’s last home game. Please contact me or our President Dan Rouen at 913-685-3322.

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#22

Post by jerf » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 3:27 PM UTC

LanceH wrote: post #8

theseatoms wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Morally, yes, they should be responsible. But StubHub only has an obligation to act legally, not morally. There should be laws in place to deal with this situation. Maybe there already are?

Why laws? How about just contracts binding those in the market?

Agreed; this is probably already fraud between the seller and the buyer, ignoring StubHub's involvement already. It's unlikely we need any laws to "fix" this because the ones that have been around for centuries are probably already sufficient. Small-claims court may already be an available avenue of relief as in many states this would fit under the limit, though the internet can as always make jurisdiction a tricky issue: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/small-claims-suits-ho...

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#23

Post by dommer » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 3:28 PM UTC

ascagnel_ wrote: post #3

The better question is why SH allows sellers to cancel complete orders where payment has already been taken. Frankly, it's ridiculous that the seller had any input a month after the order was marked as confirmed, and I can only assume that payment was taken if SH was willing to issue a nearly $1,000 credit.

Perhaps SH was secretly the seller.

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#24

Post by mikeash » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 3:28 PM UTC

th0br0 wrote: post #21

Looks like "ticketsforless.com" got some great free PR (if they manage to spin the media on this) - from the FB comments: Jason Durbin · VP of Ticket Operations at Tickets For Less Jesse Sandler – I’m the VP of Ticket Operations at Tickets For Less. We’ve reached out to TheLeadSports.com and are trying to contact you. We have four seats for you in section 106 for Kobe’s last home game. Please contact me or our Presid…

Not exactly free if the tickets are going for $6,000 each, but still a genius move.

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#25

Post by asift » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 3:28 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #11

Simple way to solve this is to make SH an escrow service that requires the tickets up front. Of course that would increase costs and their responsibility, so it will never happen.

Or SH can work with other stakeholders in the industry to develop alternative systems of digital transfer and record keeping of ticket ownership.

Paper tickets have some benefits, but there should be a way to void a paper ticket and convert it to a digital ticket that can be transferred electronically. Escrow costs would be a lot lower of SH is only escrowing digital ownership that can be transferred back to the seller if the tickets haven't sold.

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#26

Post by busterarm » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 3:29 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #17

busterarm wrote: post #11

Simple way to solve this is to make SH an escrow service that requires the tickets up front. Of course that would increase costs and their responsibility, so it will never happen.

They actually do this for some very high profile events - they require you to send in your tickets before they are placed for sale on the site. The Super Bowl is one, the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight was another. But regardless of whether or not it is a high profile event, the seller should only be given a few days to deliver the tickets after the sale. That way this kind of thing won't happen. If this seller only had 5…

I feel like this is something Amazon could do very well...

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#27

Post by hotgoldminer » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 3:29 PM UTC

morley wrote: post #16

mikeash wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are they set up this way? The purchase should confer ownership at the time of purchase, or within a reasonable time afterwards, in such a way that it is physically impossible for the seller to take back ownership without the cooperation of the buyer.

Sometimes Ticketmaster takes a long while to print the tickets. So even if the seller has to send in the tickets as soon as possible (which is in fact the case), there's going to be some period where the transaction has occurred and the seller can't possibly send the tickets to the buyer. I think Stubhub has non-delivery penalties, but probably not enough to cancel out this windfall.

Age old problem. It is why PayPal exists. Arbitrage on transactions where trust is a problem. SH could warranty to make a comparable ticket available on any consummated transaction - probably they should given the reputational loss they've incurred.

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#28

Post by CaptSpify » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 3:30 PM UTC

delecti wrote: post #12

The article might be more compelling if half of it weren't in all caps. Though as is, I probably won't ever use StubHub if this is the case.

The problem I see is: show me a good alternative

I don't see that there is any ticket-service that isn't shady in some way. I've only used a few, but they are usually pretty exclusive to the event, and they are all terrible.

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#29

Post by mikeash » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 3:32 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #22

LanceH wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why laws? How about just contracts binding those in the market?

Agreed; this is probably already fraud between the seller and the buyer, ignoring StubHub's involvement already. It's unlikely we need any laws to "fix" this because the ones that have been around for centuries are probably already sufficient. Small-claims court may already be an available avenue of relief as in many states this would fit under the limit, though the internet can as always make jurisdiction a tricky i…

Would a small claims court in this case do anything besides ensure the buyer got a refund, which they already got anyway?

Re: The Surreal Story of StubHub Screwing Over a Kobe Fan

#30

Post by mikeash » Thu, Jan 07, 2016, 3:35 PM UTC

hotgoldminer wrote: post #27

morley wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes Ticketmaster takes a long while to print the tickets. So even if the seller has to send in the tickets as soon as possible (which is in fact the case), there's going to be some period where the transaction has occurred and the seller can't possibly send the tickets to the buyer. I think Stubhub has non-delivery penalties, but probably not enough to cancel out this windfall.

Age old problem. It is why PayPal exists. Arbitrage on transactions where trust is a problem. SH could warranty to make a comparable ticket available on any consummated transaction - probably they should given the reputational loss they've incurred.

They currently guarantee "comparable replacement tickets or send you a refund." It sounds like in practice they try for the "comparable replacement tickets" first... except that according to them there were none in this case, because all the remaining tickets were really expensive!