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Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

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Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#51

Post by aidenn0 »

jandrese wrote: post #14
Xcelerate wrote: post #10

I find these people particularly interesting, not because of the absurdity of their belief, but because of the certainty they have in their belief and how difficult it is to convince them otherwise. The article points out that "many Americans" hold some kind of wacky belief and strongly resist attempts to challenge it: vaccines cause autism, global warming isn't real, the moon landing was faked, the earth is 6,000 ye…

The big thing is you can't convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. They have already made up their mind, dug in their heels, and are willing to fight to the death. In some cases they would consider themselves a bad person if they didn't defend their ideals to the death. This is especially true if there is a religious aspect to their view. They don't call it a "reasoned position" on religion, it is belief.…

Fideism plays an important role in some sects of Christianity, but is considered heresy in others. It is not mentioned in any of the eccumenical creeds.

That being said, there has always been a strong minority pushing for it, and one interpretation of the doctrine "Sola Scriptura" (which is a core tenent of Protestantism) would be that anything contrary to scripture is wrong (hence young-earth creationism).

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#52

Post by aidenn0 »

DanBlake wrote: post #48
shmageggy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTA: > [The theory is that] "GPS devices are rigged to make airplane pilots think they are flying in straight lines around a sphere when they are actually flying in circles above a disc."

my reply has to do with the unexpected time difference, not the GPS. When a flight (according to the flat earth) should take 24 hours and only takes 12.

A circle is longer than a straight line, so it would explain the time difference too.

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#53

Post by jakeogh »

hanniabu wrote: post #13
[deleted] wrote: post #6

[deleted]

Probably going to get some hate for this..... Honestly, I believe 9/11 was an inside job, but all the quacks that come along on the conspiracy train make all others look bad.

Yep. That's the point. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybBa_Ygg1rE

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#54

Post by tzs »

BlackFly wrote: post #29
DarkTree wrote: post #8

I am trying to think of a way to prove without a doubt that the earth is not flat. I thought about sending them into space, and having them look through a window at the round earth suspended in the black. But then I almost know what they would say; the window is somehow distorting the true appearance of the earth. If it doesn't conform to their view, they will create reasons as to why. There are so many similar examp…

Measure your shadow at solar noon, fly south and measure your shadow at solar noon there. (Solar noon may differ from 1200.) Essentially, just repeat this ancient experiment: http://www.juliantrubin.com/bigten/eratosthenes.html

That only works if the people you are trying to convince believe that the Sun is far enough away for its rays to be essentially parallel at the two measuring locations.

Do flat Earth believers believe in a sufficiently large solar system for that to be true?

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#55

Post by sopooneo »

jandrese wrote: post #14
Xcelerate wrote: post #10

I find these people particularly interesting, not because of the absurdity of their belief, but because of the certainty they have in their belief and how difficult it is to convince them otherwise. The article points out that "many Americans" hold some kind of wacky belief and strongly resist attempts to challenge it: vaccines cause autism, global warming isn't real, the moon landing was faked, the earth is 6,000 ye…

The big thing is you can't convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. They have already made up their mind, dug in their heels, and are willing to fight to the death. In some cases they would consider themselves a bad person if they didn't defend their ideals to the death. This is especially true if there is a religious aspect to their view. They don't call it a "reasoned position" on religion, it is belief.…

To your point, the first step is to make them want to be convinced. For the irrational, changing beliefs is about many of the things we might consider heresy: appeals to authority, ad homonym attacks, etc. But much more often, I have found the key is if the person feels connected to you or the people making the counter argument.

You can not use logic to dissuade someone of a belief they arrived at emotionally. Instead, if you actually want to do it, you have to use emotion. It's our poor thining that makes us to try reason with the unreasonable.

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#56

Post by sopooneo »

jandrese wrote: post #14
Xcelerate wrote: post #10

I find these people particularly interesting, not because of the absurdity of their belief, but because of the certainty they have in their belief and how difficult it is to convince them otherwise. The article points out that "many Americans" hold some kind of wacky belief and strongly resist attempts to challenge it: vaccines cause autism, global warming isn't real, the moon landing was faked, the earth is 6,000 ye…

The big thing is you can't convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. They have already made up their mind, dug in their heels, and are willing to fight to the death. In some cases they would consider themselves a bad person if they didn't defend their ideals to the death. This is especially true if there is a religious aspect to their view. They don't call it a "reasoned position" on religion, it is belief.…

To your point, the first step is to make them want to be convinced. For the irrational, changing beliefs is about many of the things we might consider heresy: appeals to authority, ad homonym attacks, etc. But much more often, I have found the key is if the person feels connected to you or the people making the counter argument.

Of course we can not logic to dissuade someone of a belief they arrived at emotionally. Instead, if you actually want to do it, you have to use emotion. It's our poor reasoning that makes us to try reason with the unreasonable.

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#57

Post by sopooneo »

jandrese wrote: post #14
Xcelerate wrote: post #10

I find these people particularly interesting, not because of the absurdity of their belief, but because of the certainty they have in their belief and how difficult it is to convince them otherwise. The article points out that "many Americans" hold some kind of wacky belief and strongly resist attempts to challenge it: vaccines cause autism, global warming isn't real, the moon landing was faked, the earth is 6,000 ye…

The big thing is you can't convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. They have already made up their mind, dug in their heels, and are willing to fight to the death. In some cases they would consider themselves a bad person if they didn't defend their ideals to the death. This is especially true if there is a religious aspect to their view. They don't call it a "reasoned position" on religion, it is belief.…

To your point, the first step is to make them want to be convinced. For the irrational, changing beliefs is about many of the things we might consider heresy: appeals to authority, ad homonym attacks, etc. But much more often, I have found the key is if the person feels connected to you or the people making the counter argument.

Of course we can not logic to dissuade someone of a belief they arrived at emotionally. Instead, if you actually want to do it, you have to use emotion. It's our poor reasoning that makes us to try reason with the unreasonable.

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#58

Post by hanniabu »

jakeogh wrote: post #53
hanniabu wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably going to get some hate for this..... Honestly, I believe 9/11 was an inside job, but all the quacks that come along on the conspiracy train make all others look bad.

Yep. That's the point. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybBa_Ygg1rE

Exactly, and what makes this easier is when an emotional event is attached because it clouds people's logic.

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#59

Post by oxplot »

lordnacho wrote: post #37
oxplot wrote: post #24

The absurdity of this intrigued me and I dropped by their site. Read a few threads and it seems like they're not fond of satellite photography and rely on their senses almost exclusively. So here's a little question for them: why does a ship seem to "sink" into the ocean the further it gets?

It practice ships disappear into optical obscurity before you can see that only the top half is visible. And even that could just be a big wave, right?

Not really. A big enough ship combined with a clear day and a set of binoculars works pretty well. As for the big wave, repeat the experiment enough times to filter out the noise.
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