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Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

economist.com

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Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#201

Post by scope »

devindotcom wrote: post #15

Personally, I believe Zuckerberg is sincere in wanting to connect everyone in the world with each other. However, I believe he is also sincere in thinking that Facebook is the best and perhaps only platform by which this is possible. In this he is sincerely mistaken. I feel sure he doesn't think of it as a land grab, even privately. But he is looking from the inside out. If he wants to be seen as the Great Connector,…

African here (WE are poor too, "Free Basics" will serve us as well)

> Personally, I believe Zuckerberg is sincere in wanting to connect everyone in the world with each other.

I personally think you're a lobbyist or you just like Mark (I mean who wouldn't, eccentric billionaire who gave MOST of his fortune away to a good cause. How could he possibly want to make MORE money)

> But he is looking from the inside out.

Yeah, EXACTLY, ask US (poor people) what we want! --- WE want our Mellenia to use snapchat (with the effects & everything), Netflix & Chill...oh my bad, I lost my train of thought. What I wanted to say was that, WE want you people (first world) to donate to UNICEF so the starving child with a fly on his eye can eat --- that was my outside-in view.

Edit: to all the poor Indians who fought against "free basics", my upmost respect & gratitude --- I hope someday we can all Netflix & Chill instead of just pocking ;)

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#203

Post by sidthekid »

vaishaksuresh wrote: post #104

For the people arguing that rich people are preventing the poor from getting internet access, please read about the Nestlé baby formula scandal. This is exactly the same thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestlé_boycott#Baby_milk_issue

It is somewhat similar because the long-term effects were malicious/not known in the short term. But its not exactly the same because anyone can switch internet carriers at any time (nobody gets medically tied to Free Basics).

'Facebook addiction' isn't as objectively proven as the side effects mentioned in the article. 'Tracking usage data and privacy snooping' isn't as harmful as the side effects mentioned, because poor people probably value their 'usage data' less and access to basic resources like Wikipedia/job posting sites/health and weather reports more. (and its just fear and speculation that facebook will maliciously track all data passing through its servers, but we are treating it like inevitable fact)

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#204

Post by Grue3 »

amelius wrote: post #12

Data infrastructure should be controlled by the government only. Why? Well, imagine that every transport company had to support their own road network... Alternatively, imagine that one company controlled the roads, creating effectively a controlled market nested inside a free market.

>Data infrastructure should be controlled by the government only.

That's what the Chinese government thinks too.

Ideally, the government should stay as far away from the Internet as possible. The conflict of interest is too damn high.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#205

Post by [deleted] »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #177
dingo_bat wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>donating that money to the farmers he intends to help. Donating money directly almost never helps in the long run. I think Zuckerberg is doing what he thinks is good, and I don't think free internet to farmers will do any bad . It might help only a few and by a little amount, but that is still better than nothing. Who are we to decide how somebody else organizes their charity?

I fail to realize how facebook itself would be a "basic" service for poor people. Haven't seen a single person who has benefited from using facebook/whatsapp to uplift their social status, that being said, what India needs is a change at a fundamental level, NOT free Internet.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#206

Post by sidthekid »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #177
dingo_bat wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>donating that money to the farmers he intends to help. Donating money directly almost never helps in the long run. I think Zuckerberg is doing what he thinks is good, and I don't think free internet to farmers will do any bad . It might help only a few and by a little amount, but that is still better than nothing. Who are we to decide how somebody else organizes their charity?

I fail to realize how facebook itself would be a "basic" service for poor people. Haven't seen a single person who has benefited from using facebook/whatsapp to uplift their social status, that being said, what India needs is a change at a fundamental level, NOT free Internet.

Free Basics has other services apart from just facebook. https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/examples

Change at a fundamental level is a good long-term goal, but do you want to make people wait 5-15 years for that, instead of getting help in the next week? Will getting free internet slow down the fundamental change?

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#207

Post by Grue3 »

lunula wrote: post #49
mwsherman wrote: post #38

There is a remarkable disconnect between the critics and the users here. Note that no users were cited in the article. I understand not liking Facebook’s motives, that’s fine. Perhaps we can defer to the preferences of users here, who can choose to accept those motives or not, and to decide if the trade-off is an acceptable one. If we believe that they are unqualified to make this choice, one should explain that posi…

It does seem that people in India are speaking up against this. Now you will quip that these activists must already have internet access, otherwise they would not even know to speak up. But the activists are at least from the same communities as the target market for this program. They are fighting for their families and friends. This seems very genuine and selfless in comparison to the motivations of the company and…

>They are fighting for their families and friends.

The less charitable explanation is that they're fighting to keep their leg up on the less fortunate population. The gap between those with Internet access and without is absolutely enormous. If everyone has Internet access, this untaps incredible amount of people resources, which would drive down the demand for those who currently have Internet access. These "activists" have a lot to lose if the poor get allowed into the cool kids' treehouse.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#208

Post by BlackFly »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #129
mwsherman wrote: post #38

There is a remarkable disconnect between the critics and the users here. Note that no users were cited in the article. I understand not liking Facebook’s motives, that’s fine. Perhaps we can defer to the preferences of users here, who can choose to accept those motives or not, and to decide if the trade-off is an acceptable one. If we believe that they are unqualified to make this choice, one should explain that posi…

Exactly this. It is downright appalling every time I see someone from a place of privilege declare what's best for the unprivileged. All this vitriol against FreeBasics is exactly that. Until I see a mass of extremely poor indians with no internet access reject FreeBasics because they don't want facebook to have their "data", all this hate is just self-serving bluster in my eyes.

So what you are saying is that this article is worthless because it doesn't contain anecdotal opinions of the people who would be served?

Going back in history, there were plenty of woman during the suffrage who stood up and proclaimed they should not be given the vote. Further back, there were plenty of abused wives who proclaimed they should not be allowed to divorce their husbands. Further back, there were plenty of slaves who proclaimed they should not be given freedom.

Now we have a class of highly exploited individuals and an organization that wants to give "internet" access to these individuals but only if their personal data can always be exploited over that highly manicured network. The government cannot shirk its duty to protect these individuals. They will need to monitor "Free Basics" for abuse. The service will not be free from the public perspective and their are better things the government could do for those people.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#209

Post by dclowd9901 »

wavefunction wrote: post #174
rms_returns wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from India and the conditions of many farmers is pathetic here, poverty isn't a word enough to describe their condition. They are illiterate, exploited by higher-ups in the society and struggle to get even basic necessities in life. Conditions are so gloomy that on average, one farmer commits suicide every thirty minutes in this country! And these are the people whom Zuckerberg is targeting for the FreeBasics fre…

No offense to you but when I hear "socialize" it raises my hackles. People at my relatively great employer use this term and for no reason. We can communicate with each other but to use a term like "socialize" is to insult both you and me, for I can find no positive association with its usage. *and it has nothing to do with politics. I am about as Left as it gets.

No offense to you, but "socializing" means a great deal more than simply "communicating with each other," including joking, touching, laughing, sending body language and simply being in the presence of. You'd do well to not trivialize the nuances of human connection.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#210

Post by imakesnowflakes »

dingo_bat wrote: post #152
rms_returns wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from India and the conditions of many farmers is pathetic here, poverty isn't a word enough to describe their condition. They are illiterate, exploited by higher-ups in the society and struggle to get even basic necessities in life. Conditions are so gloomy that on average, one farmer commits suicide every thirty minutes in this country! And these are the people whom Zuckerberg is targeting for the FreeBasics fre…

>donating that money to the farmers he intends to help. Donating money directly almost never helps in the long run. I think Zuckerberg is doing what he thinks is good, and I don't think free internet to farmers will do any bad . It might help only a few and by a little amount, but that is still better than nothing. Who are we to decide how somebody else organizes their charity?

> I don't think free internet to farmers will do any bad..

Does it intend to serve ads? How does ads work? Isn't one aspect of ads involve creating needs where there were previously none? Does it involve injecting insecurities (Ex: You are a loser if you are not fair) into the minds of the gullible and make them buy buy buy...

So, what If the end result of this is that suddenly the teenage kids of these farmers starts to spend more amount of money on cosmetics (because of Ads or to make them look good in "selfies"). Will that do them good?

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