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Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

economist.com

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Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#171

Post by dingo_bat »

RodericDay wrote: post #164
dingo_bat wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>donating that money to the farmers he intends to help. Donating money directly almost never helps in the long run. I think Zuckerberg is doing what he thinks is good, and I don't think free internet to farmers will do any bad . It might help only a few and by a little amount, but that is still better than nothing. Who are we to decide how somebody else organizes their charity?

> Donating money directly almost never helps in the long run. What? The debate about the benefits of direct cash-transfers vs. more managed forms of aid is alive and well in 2015.

Do you think donating some money to farmers is going to help in any way? The government has been doing that for a long time (through subsidies and minimum purchase prices), at a much larger scale than any single person is capable of. And it hasn't improved anything much. I think it is clear that the only way to improve conditions is to enable farmers to convert their business into a sustainable one. And for that, cheap/free internet access could prove to be the turnaround factor.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#172

Post by dingo_bat »

slaxman wrote: post #160
dingo_bat wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though it seems a big number, 52 million is nothing compared to the people who still do not have access. I think the growth rate is not fast enough. We should be doubling the installed base every year. 52 million is just about 1/6 of the total number of users. And I'm inclined to believe that this sluggishness is due in part to the cost of access.

Once you reach a certain scale of users, percentage growth don't matter because it's hard to hit big absolute numbers. In whichever way you look at it, 52Mn is a freakishly huge number. And this timeline is 6 months, not a year. Further "Free basics" has been launched in other countries. But there is not proof that it results in more internet connectivity. ( http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/the…

I do not see any proof that such a correlation does not exist. Your link contains an offhand remark that does not cite any study or data. I think it's common sense that if you offer something for free, more people will use it.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#173

Post by mailmrg »

funkyy wrote: post #94

Free internet is basically a deal that FB did with some carriers to provide some of their resources in exchange for some kick ass promises and possibly funds. The easy way to do this for ANY government would be to force all wireless carriers to provide 200 MB free internet to all citizens in exchange for license to broadcast. This happened once in Poland for example when government provided frequencies in exchange of…

completely agree and this will make a good start for lot of people.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#174

Post by wavefunction »

rms_returns wrote: post #150
avar wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on, this is a guy who poorly disguises a press release about a restructuring of his finances as a letter to his daughter. It's much more likely that Zuckerberg realizes his company is overvalued, and that he needs to acquire a massive amount of users to make up for that gap. Subsidizing a walled-garden version of the Internet where users can only use Facebook in developing countries makes strategic sense for…

I'm from India and the conditions of many farmers is pathetic here, poverty isn't a word enough to describe their condition. They are illiterate, exploited by higher-ups in the society and struggle to get even basic necessities in life. Conditions are so gloomy that on average, one farmer commits suicide every thirty minutes in this country! And these are the people whom Zuckerberg is targeting for the FreeBasics fre…

No offense to you but when I hear "socialize" it raises my hackles. People at my relatively great employer use this term and for no reason. We can communicate with each other but to use a term like "socialize" is to insult both you and me, for I can find no positive association with its usage.

*and it has nothing to do with politics. I am about as Left as it gets.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#175

Post by [deleted] »

asift wrote: post #74
zanny wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a poor Indian citizen supposed to make a judgment on if having a locked down Internet where they can only use Facebook is better than this Internet they might not have even heard of with millions of websites? They only see one side of this argument if any at all. From their perspective they do not know alternatives even exist .

It's not that they don't see other alternatives. This is true, but the reality is that other realistic alternatives don't even exist. Their realistic option set is: (a) free access to an incredibly valuable set of resources, or (b) nothing. I would take (a) over (b) any day. I would hope that broader alternatives would eventually come along (and history tells us it will), but the crowd that wants the Indian poor to h…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#176

Post by csgrad12 »

Free Basics, if legalized, sets a precedent for ISPs to offer zero-rated plans which affects everyone. You don't want a huge market with more than half a billion users (by 2020) where zero-rated plans are commonplace. Everyone loses out in such a situation except the ISPs. Netflix was just launched in India, and Reliance (the carrier that supports Free Basics) has a similar offering called Bigflix, which they can zero-rate to eliminate Netflix. Airtel, another huge operator can zero-rate their messaging application Hike to eliminate WhatsApp/Snapchat. Their music offering can eliminate Spotify (if they do come to India) or any other music streaming startup. Flipkart, an e-commerce player can eliminate every other niche e-commerce startups in India by zero-rating their services, which they tried last year.

Sadly, all the campaigns are focused on Facebook/Zuckerberg and people calling for a ban on Free Basics when they should actually be campaigning against zero-rating.

Free Basics might be a great gateway drug to the internet, but what good is it if the internet as we know today will not exist when the poor decide to get a "complete" internet connection?

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#177

Post by thewhitetulip »

dingo_bat wrote: post #152
rms_returns wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from India and the conditions of many farmers is pathetic here, poverty isn't a word enough to describe their condition. They are illiterate, exploited by higher-ups in the society and struggle to get even basic necessities in life. Conditions are so gloomy that on average, one farmer commits suicide every thirty minutes in this country! And these are the people whom Zuckerberg is targeting for the FreeBasics fre…

>donating that money to the farmers he intends to help. Donating money directly almost never helps in the long run. I think Zuckerberg is doing what he thinks is good, and I don't think free internet to farmers will do any bad . It might help only a few and by a little amount, but that is still better than nothing. Who are we to decide how somebody else organizes their charity?

I fail to realize how facebook itself would be a "basic" service for poor people. Haven't seen a single person who has benefited from using facebook/whatsapp to uplift their social status, that being said, what India needs is a change at a fundamental level, NOT free Internet.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#178

Post by rodgerd »

click170 wrote: post #33
oxide wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Personally, I believe Zuckerberg is sincere in wanting to connect everyone in the world with each other. >I feel sure he doesn't think of it as a land grab, even privately. why?

I can't speak for op but I agree with them and can explain why I feel that way. I believe most humans are inherently not evil even if they don't agree with me. They want to make the world a better place, and they are simply pursuing an agenda that accomplishes that in their eyes. I don't have any evidence that most people aren't evil, but in my day to day interactions I have yet to meet someone who I believe is since…

Intent is not magic.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#179

Post by ignoramous »

devindotcom wrote: post #15

Personally, I believe Zuckerberg is sincere in wanting to connect everyone in the world with each other. However, I believe he is also sincere in thinking that Facebook is the best and perhaps only platform by which this is possible. In this he is sincerely mistaken. I feel sure he doesn't think of it as a land grab, even privately. But he is looking from the inside out. If he wants to be seen as the Great Connector,…

Strange that you find the CEO utmost sincere but the company utmost suspicious.

If I were you, I'd question the intentions too. The arguments have been laid out against "Free Basics" but Facebook has refused to engage the community. It continues to push its agenda forward by running dubious ad-campaigns and surveys.

This is the second time Facebook has tried something similar, after having lost the first round of battle that led to many Indians uninstalling apps and boycotting websites that supported/participated in its "internet.org" initiative.

Zuckerberg has managed to PR himself as sincere, honest, noble, altruist and what not... but that PR hasn't worked in India. He, personally, holds no sway unlike, may be, in SV.

"Free Basics" let's not kid ourselves is a move by Facebook to take control of the Internet. It already controls 4 of the most popular apps on mobile in the English speaking world (Facebook, WhatsApp, Instagram, Messenger); with "Free Basics" they're taking steps to ensure that dominance stays intact.

You even see Google trying to do that in a more subtle way... googleweblight, subsidized Nexus line of products, "free and open source" Android with tightly controlled ecosystem, Chrome with properiteary plug-ins, Fiber, Fi, and OnHub to quote a few.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#180

Post by rodgerd »

seshagiric wrote: post #159
slaxman wrote: post #151

Few points here: 1. It's not really internet. It's a set of 100 sites that includes a real estate portal and a personal blog. If you are talking about connecting the unconnected with essential services, why have these on your list? On the other hand, chennairains.org, a website that helped people during extreme floods in chennai was not on that list. 2. There is no proof that "free basics" actually improves internet…

Agree with most but to be fair, although currently the program is limited to few 100 sites, the way the program works is if you own a website, you can register it with Freebasics and they will provide free access. And to this the sites cannot be encrypted. For information like e.g. what helps Farmers, encryption need not be a blocker.

So I can beg Facebook for permission to be on the Internet. Wow, wonderful!
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