Rich people limiting poor peoples options, again. It's much better they eat cake, than this "free internet"
This is probably the most idiotic argument against the critics of Facebook and it is not even original.
Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India
121–130 of 243 posts
Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India
#122There is a remarkable disconnect between the critics and the users here. Note that no users were cited in the article. I understand not liking Facebook’s motives, that’s fine. Perhaps we can defer to the preferences of users here, who can choose to accept those motives or not, and to decide if the trade-off is an acceptable one. If we believe that they are unqualified to make this choice, one should explain that posi…
Okay, let’s give the users of Facebook predecessors of Free Basic a voice. Here am I, a German who used to use Facebook Zero (free access to Facebook via 3G) while I was in middle (and later high) school. As soon as it became available, I – and some of my friends – stopped using SchuelerVZ, the social network most people used to use at the time – and instead actually tried to convince others to switch to Facebook, to…
Are you happy with the outcome? Would you make the same decision knowing what you know now?
Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Zuckerberg is the new Bill Gates. In the 90s, Gates was notorious in his ruthlessness to define personal computing as a 100% Microsoft-only experience. Today, as you pointed out, Zuckerberg is pushing equally hard at defining the internet and Facebook to be one and the same. In both cases, it doesn't really matter whether or not the efforts are sincere. The outcome is just as undesirable for the general public either…
Actually, there's no reason to believe that his effort is sincere. His main company has a pretty bad track record of being sincere or upfront about anything it has ever done. Many on HN are sympathetic to him because he seems to be like us but he isn't. Like you said: he is more like 90s Bill Gates than he is like any of us.
Why do you think many of us are not like 90s Bill Gates?
Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
More important than an apology would be a statement that it is no longer true (if that is, in fact, the case). Anyone have a link to such a statement?
Although it may give some positive press - the reality is that he was a young adult when he said it and he simply can't take it back. We don't need to pretend he's some kind of saint. This fake modesty is seriously nonsense. Zuck is a competitor and a winner and does what is necessary. That's it.
Competing and winning has no dependency on harvesting user data and giving it away to his friends for their own personal use.
Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is a poor Indian citizen supposed to make a judgment on if having a locked down Internet where they can only use Facebook is better than this Internet they might not have even heard of with millions of websites? They only see one side of this argument if any at all. From their perspective they do not know alternatives even exist .
It's not that they don't see other alternatives. This is true, but the reality is that other realistic alternatives don't even exist. Their realistic option set is: (a) free access to an incredibly valuable set of resources, or (b) nothing. I would take (a) over (b) any day. I would hope that broader alternatives would eventually come along (and history tells us it will), but the crowd that wants the Indian poor to h…
It's not an either/or. You're drawing a false dichotomy and then choosing the lesser of two evils. There is a third possibility as others have pointed out which is to actually lobby for improving all the basic infrastructure so that the real internet and not some hobbled version of it is available and accessible to everyone.
Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
It almost paints a picture of the old AOL and MSN services where you entered some corporation's version of the internet.
I've found that using AOL to make this analogy is helpful in explaining the issues with free basics (and net neutrality in general) to non-technical folks. For example, many people have experience with parents who think the only way to receive their email is by logging in through AOL's desktop application, installed on their Windows computer.
I don't understand what the fuss is over this. Using your analogy, if AOL were legitimately free to non-technical folks, it would be worth it for many of them to have their curated/locked in ecosystem. I can't help but feel the hate for freebasics is an example of the privileged declaring what's best for the unprivileged.
Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't speak for op but I agree with them and can explain why I feel that way. I believe most humans are inherently not evil even if they don't agree with me. They want to make the world a better place, and they are simply pursuing an agenda that accomplishes that in their eyes. I don't have any evidence that most people aren't evil, but in my day to day interactions I have yet to meet someone who I believe is since…
It is possible that he could see it as a land grab but not see a "land grab" as inherently evil.
"Manifest Destiny"
Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh come on, this is a guy who poorly disguises a press release about a restructuring of his finances as a letter to his daughter. It's much more likely that Zuckerberg realizes his company is overvalued, and that he needs to acquire a massive amount of users to make up for that gap. Subsidizing a walled-garden version of the Internet where users can only use Facebook in developing countries makes strategic sense for…
How is not necessarily a bad thing? In what way could it possibly be a good thing for anybody outside of Facebook?
In the scenario of free walled-garden internet access vs. no access, how can you justify claiming its not a good thing?
Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India
#129There is a remarkable disconnect between the critics and the users here. Note that no users were cited in the article. I understand not liking Facebook’s motives, that’s fine. Perhaps we can defer to the preferences of users here, who can choose to accept those motives or not, and to decide if the trade-off is an acceptable one. If we believe that they are unqualified to make this choice, one should explain that posi…
Exactly this. It is downright appalling every time I see someone from a place of privilege declare what's best for the unprivileged. All this vitriol against FreeBasics is exactly that. Until I see a mass of extremely poor indians with no internet access reject FreeBasics because they don't want facebook to have their "data", all this hate is just self-serving bluster in my eyes.
Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not that they don't see other alternatives. This is true, but the reality is that other realistic alternatives don't even exist. Their realistic option set is: (a) free access to an incredibly valuable set of resources, or (b) nothing. I would take (a) over (b) any day. I would hope that broader alternatives would eventually come along (and history tells us it will), but the crowd that wants the Indian poor to h…
It's not an either/or. You're drawing a false dichotomy and then choosing the lesser of two evils. There is a third possibility as others have pointed out which is to actually lobby for improving all the basic infrastructure so that the real internet and not some hobbled version of it is available and accessible to everyone.
Lobbying is not a legitimate option as it comes with an open ended timeframe for success.